Super Metroid Cliffhanger Redux

[DonnyDonovan]

Could you summarize which tricks are required?   IBJ is kind of a deal breaker for me and, for example, I hate when hacks require CF.  I played the easy version of the original CH.  But I sense this one is maybe a TAD more accessible to players of less than god-like skill?  I'm debating whether I want to give it a shot. 

[Digital_Mantra]

Could you summarize which tricks are required?   IBJ is kind of a deal breaker for me and, for example, I hate when hacks require CF.  I played the easy version of the original CH.  But I sense this one is maybe a TAD more accessible to players of less than god-like skill?  I'm debating whether I want to give it a shot.

walljumping, mockball, short charge, wj+hbj, ibj (in 1 spot required, but useful throughout casually), and more walljumping.
It's way different than the old easy version. Give it a shot if you're willing to learn new stuff and get better in the process.

[Yuki]

I just got grapple and I'm rather stuck, unsure where to go. I don't know how to get speed in the water room to the right of the landing site if that's where you have to progress

[LiquidDreams]

It's really great to see more from DM, as I played (some) of the Eris remake and loved it -- just wish I had the skills to complete it, lol. To be specific it's really the level design and choice of themes that I like about your hacks, it's a different experience, for sure. If an easy version of CliffHanger is released then I'm definitely playing this.

[Quietus]

I just got grapple and I'm rather stuck, unsure where to go. I don't know how to get speed in the water room to the right of the landing site if that's where you have to progress

You need to
[spoiler]Grapple the block in the ceiling, swing right (make sure you're holding the run button), and mid-air morph into the small gap at the top of that wall to the right. If you don't hold run, your momentum will be killed, and you'll never make it.[/spoiler]

[piush]

I just got the grapple beam. I am not the best player but I guess when I am done I will have mastered a few more tricks I think. I lol as I play because the puzzles are cool. I know , still lots left to do but I like this version. Thanks  Digital_Mantra for putting this together.

EDIT:

DM, I have a question. I am now one move away from Phantoon I believe, but in watching vids of your original cliffhanger I noticed there was an energy tank close to grapple room. Have you taken that out in this version. I could not find it. Thank you. I also should say I have 20 missiles and 2 tanks at the moment.

[CaRmAgE]

I am now one move away from Phantoon I believe, but in watching vids of your original cliffhanger I noticed there was an energy tank close to grapple room. Have you taken that out in this version. I could not find it.

I couldn't find it, either, but based on what I've played so far and 100%ing the original Cliffhanger, DM moved quite a few expansions around.  I wouldn't be surprised if he moved that one, too.

walljumping, mockball, short charge, wj+hbj, ibj (in 1 spot required, but useful throughout casually), and more walljumping.

[spoiler]Is it possible in this hack to do the blue suit glitch where you fall straight down with echoes?  I've done it before in SZM, but I can't get it to work in a room in Juolbrin where it looks like it's required (for an expansion, I'm guessing).[/spoiler]

[Digital_Mantra]

[spoiler]Is it possible in this hack to do the blue suit glitch where you fall straight down with echoes?  I've done it before in SZM, but I can't get it to work in a room in Juolbrin where it looks like it's required (for an expansion, I'm guessing).[/spoiler]

Yes, there's 2 expansions that revolve around those physics. Try pressing up or down at the right moment, there's even more leeway when you speedball and demorph (for me personally).

[CaRmAgE]

Yes, there's 2 expansions that revolve around those physics. Try pressing up or down at the right moment, there's even more leeway when you speedball and demorph (for me personally).

Alright, I'll give it another shot.  Thanks.

[advancedpillow]

Wow. I've completely missed this release! Congrats Dman. I'm gonna start it up tonight!

[CaRmAgE]

I think I know why several people were having trouble in that shinespark/super missile room in Juolbrin.  DM, the ramp in that room is glitchy.  When I first entered the room, I originally thought the room was broken; almost every time I tried to do a running jump to get to the upper ledge, Samus acted like she was jumping from a stand-still.  Something with that ramp is killing jumps and should probably be looked into.

[spoiler]Currently, I'm trying to figure out where to go after Super Missiles.  Based on the original Cliffhanger, I assumed I would need to fight Crocomire next.  I made it past the second Hell run with my 6 Energy Tanks, but the grapple point in the room before Crocomire seems to be broken, because it's not giving me anywhere near enough height to clear the spike wall.  Do I have to damage boost off the eastern spike wall or something?  Normally, I would just IBJ in a situation like this, but there's no place to start one.[/spoiler]

[Digital_Mantra]

[spoiler]Currently, I'm trying to figure out where to go after Super Missiles.  Based on the original Cliffhanger, I assumed I would need to fight Crocomire next.  I made it past the second Hell run with my 6 Energy Tanks, but the grapple point in the room before Crocomire seems to be broken, because it's not giving me anywhere near enough height to clear the spike wall.  Do I have to damage boost off the eastern spike wall or something?  Normally, I would just IBJ in a situation like this, but there's no place to start one.[/spoiler]

There are 3 ways to go about it, you can de-latch midair morph into an ibj, or just use the crumble block as a surface to jump and start an ibj, or you can do the grapple glitch where you demorph and jump for more height.

[piush]

CaRmAgE, I am at the same place you are after second hell's run. I only have 4 energy tanks. can you tell me in a pm or spoiler where i missed the other 2. Thanks. I am now trying the ibj off the crumble block.

[CaRmAgE]

There are 3 ways to go about it, you can de-latch midair morph into an ibj, or just use the crumble block as a surface to jump and start an ibj, or you can do the grapple glitch where you demorph and jump for more height.

I actually tried that first one once before posting, but by the time I laid a bomb, I was already at the peak of my jump.  I should be able to do the second one, though (I've done it before in Hyper Metroid).  Thanks.

CaRmAgE, I am at the same place you are after second hell's run. I only have 4 energy tanks.

You've got guts.  The first time I did that part, I died even though I had 6 tanks (that third room is brutal).  Anyway, I PMed you at least the locations of the tanks I found so far.

[Yuki]

I just got power bombs, and am now unsure on where to go. I know there was a lot more to explore in the Wrecked Ship, however I cannot get back in as the door is locked.

[altoiddealer]

Quick question...
[spoiler]After getting speedbooster, I went left to the room with the grey door on the left, and the 1-hit-kill pirates.  I learned how to short charge (thanks, Cliffhanger) and made it downstairs.  How do you get through the next obstacle?  Short charge > kaizo ball?  I've never been able to mockball without continuing to hold the jump button throughout the jump.  So if I try a shorter jump (by releasing jump button), pressing down even once always kills the charge.[/spoiler]

[Digital_Mantra]

Quick question...
[spoiler]After getting speedbooster, I went left to the room with the grey door on the left, and the 1-hit-kill pirates.  I learned how to short charge (thanks, Cliffhanger) and made it downstairs.  How do you get through the next obstacle?  Short charge > kaizo ball?  I've never been able to mockball without continuing to hold the jump button throughout the jump.  So if I try a shorter jump (by releasing jump button), pressing down even once always kills the charge.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
I also need to mockball while holding the jump button, I'm still learning how to do the short jumps with the release and press (have been for years lol), so all mockballs required you can always hold the jump button. It sounds like what you need to do is keep some of those crates intact as a surface.[/spoiler]

[altoiddealer]

Quick question...
[spoiler]After getting speedbooster, I went left to the room with the grey door on the left, and the 1-hit-kill pirates.  I learned how to short charge (thanks, Cliffhanger) and made it downstairs.  How do you get through the next obstacle?  Short charge > kaizo ball?  I've never been able to mockball without continuing to hold the jump button throughout the jump.  So if I try a shorter jump (by releasing jump button), pressing down even once always kills the charge.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
I also need to mockball while holding the jump button, I'm still learning how to do the short jumps with the release and press (have been for years lol), so all mockballs required you can always hold the jump button. It sounds like what you need to do is keep some of those crates intact as a surface.[/spoiler]

Yeahhhhhh that sounds about right :)  Crap!

[CaRmAgE]

I just got power bombs, and am now unsure on where to go. I know there was a lot more to explore in the Wrecked Ship, however I cannot get back in as the door is locked.

[spoiler]Unless DM moved any of the key equipment, it's time for a 3rd Hell run.[/spoiler]

EDIT: [spoiler]Whoops, nevermind.  I remembered incorrectly.  You have to go to Melfad (Maridia) first.  Remember passing a glass tube?[/spoiler]

Anyway, I eventually made it over the spike wall using method 1.  I was using the wrong grapple point.  I currently have Charge, Ice, Spazer, 6 Energy Tanks, 95 Missiles, and 15 Supers.  I will say that this hack helped me figure out why I could never get short charges down: I kept pressing run on the wrong foot down. :blush:

EDIT: I'm stumped.  I have 13 Energy Tanks, 220 Missiles, 50 Supers, and 45 Power Bombs, but I still can't find Space Jump.  The hints provided are completely useless, because they are either too vague or misleading.  How would I know where to even start looking?  There are no blue rooms left on my map (except for part of a room in Eldridge I can't reach anymore).

[Digital_Mantra]

EDIT: I'm stumped.  I have 13 Energy Tanks, 220 Missiles, 50 Supers, and 45 Power Bombs, but I still can't find Space Jump.  The hints provided are completely useless, because they are either too vague or misleading.  How would I know where to even start looking?  There are no blue rooms left on my map (except for part of a room in Eldridge I can't reach anymore).

[spoiler]I'll try to give a couple hint without spoiling the puzzle.
[spoiler][spoiler]First off pay attention to the initials, this will narrow down your region. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]Secondly, keep thinking about the word study and how it applies to the chozo in this hack.[/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]

[CaRmAgE]

[spoiler]I'll try to give a couple hint without spoiling the puzzle.
[spoiler][spoiler]First off pay attention to the initials, this will narrow down your region. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]Secondly, keep thinking about the word study and how it applies to the chozo in this hack.[/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler=Reply/Suggestion]No wonder I could never find it.  The in-game clue mentions something that has nothing to do with the hiding spot! (Not to mention the two extra "clues" that don't contribute at all.)  As it stands, I don't see many players even thinking of entering that room a second time.  Maybe if you added a spherical object that emits sparks into that room (because that's what I was looking for the whole time), the clue would make more sense, and players might think to check that room again.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Completion Stats]
About half of the above time was spent looking for Space Jump.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Escape]While I could understand requiring players to make no errors in order to save the animals, simply getting back to the ship is too tight.  The worst part was the old Tourian shaft and being forced to fall all the way to the bottom if you don't spin jump out the door, which is pretty much an automatic loss.  Can't there at least be some rubble to land on part of the way down?

Also, what's up with that mushroom in the last room?  I tried to Spring Ball over it and got stuck in the ceiling.  That's not cool.[/spoiler]

[Digital_Mantra]

[spoiler=Escape]While I could understand requiring players to make no errors in order to save the animals, simply getting back to the ship is too tight.  The worst part was the old Tourian shaft and being forced to fall all the way to the bottom if you don't spin jump out the door, which is pretty much an automatic loss.  Can't there at least be some rubble to land on part of the way down?

Also, what's up with that mushroom in the last room?  I tried to Spring Ball over it and got stuck in the ceiling.  That's not cool.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Falling down the shaft isn't too big a time loss.
As for the animals, screw them they served no purpose in this game and saving them results in fusion.
I'll fix that mushroom for sure though.[/spoiler]

Thanks for playing!

[Lenophis]

Progress so far:
Kraid and Phantoon are dead
2 Energy Tanks, but I've seen 3 more, and I know I can get 1 of those for sure.
40 missiles, 5 supers
Ice, Charge, and Grapple.
Current game time saved at ship: 2:12

In terms of difficulty, it seems to be rather random. At first it doesn't seem bad, then it jacks up to 11, then it goes back down to 3, and so-on. And then there's items required to pick up...

That is just plain dumb. What was said to me in IRC is that "you only have to do one HBJ" which is one more than I can do. The only reason I was able to continue is because mid-air morph is still a thing.

And then right after this is the "hell run." And, this is a difficulty spike. There's really no margin for error at all. I would eventually get through it, but that section was not enjoyable. Then I got to the Wrecked Ship, which I'm now calling the "Get Reqt Ship." What a slogfest just getting to Phantoon, and then another slogfest just getting through afterwards.

Item progression seems to be at a rather sluggish pace, but I guess that's by design. So far I haven't had any real "where do I go?" moments, which is good. Things are kinda linear, but I've seen far worse than this.

I've seen some dumb-looking speedbooster puzzles, but they aren't extremely difficult. The only real complaint I have regarding that is a potential permastuck situation right after Kraid. If you don't have charge beam, and you run out of missile, you may not be able to kill the gold pirates in a speedball room. But as Mst puts it, "it's not a permastuck if you can die and revert to a previous save." Not a sentiment I agree with...

More to come.

[altoiddealer]

Progress so far:
Kraid and Phantoon are dead
2 Energy Tanks, but I've seen 3 more, and I know I can get 1 of those for sure.
40 missiles, 5 supers
Ice, Charge, and Grapple.
Current game time saved at ship: 2:12

In terms of difficulty, it seems to be rather random. At first it doesn't seem bad, then it jacks up to 11, then it goes back down to 3, and so-on. And then there's items required to pick up...

That is just plain dumb. What was said to me in IRC is that "you only have to do one HBJ" which is one more than I can do. The only reason I was able to continue is because mid-air morph is still a thing.

And then right after this is the "hell run." And, this is a difficulty spike. There's really no margin for error at all. I would eventually get through it, but that section was not enjoyable. Then I got to the Wrecked Ship, which I'm now calling the "Get Reqt Ship." What a slogfest just getting to Phantoon, and then another slogfest just getting through afterwards.

Item progression seems to be at a rather sluggish pace, but I guess that's by design. So far I haven't had any real "where do I go?" moments, which is good. Things are kinda linear, but I've seen far worse than this.

I've seen some dumb-looking speedbooster puzzles, but they aren't extremely difficult. The only real complaint I have regarding that is a potential permastuck situation right after Kraid. If you don't have charge beam, and you run out of missile, you may not be able to kill the gold pirates in a speedball room. But as Mst puts it, "it's not a permastuck if you can die and revert to a previous save." Not a sentiment I agree with...

More to come.

I learned HBJ to get this item.  It's not that tricky for this one... if it was any further, then yes.  The water is very annoying when trying another attempt.

[spoiler]This only takes 3 bombs.
Act like you will do a normal IBJ (place bomb #2 right before you get hit by bomb #1), but move over slightly before bomb #1 goes off.  Place bomb #3 over the water and drift back left to get hit by bomb #2.  Bomb #3 will hit you into the hole.[/spoiler]

[Digital_Mantra]

The rooms usually have 2 or more ways to go about them, I'm satisfied with the player having options.
I'll make getting out of the water less tedious and punishing per attempt though.

The way I see it, one guy says it's dumb, another guy says he learned a technique to get it.
This hack is all about learning new skills and brushing up on the ones you know.  :nod: