Super Metroid Cliffhanger Redux

[altoiddealer]

It took a few minutes of mockball fails before considering bombs... Yeah, it was satisfying once I got it.  I took another stab at HBJ in red brinstar from walljump, and was pleased to nail it.  :bounce:

The two short charge parts were very annoying IMO.  It's hard enough just to get charged, but then it's also a very tight timeframe to get in position.  This is my first "challenge hack" though.

Um another quick question
[spoiler]about that room with the 1-hit kill pirates I asked about earlier... is it worth it/required to backtrack there?  I already climbed out, pulled off that short charge in green brinstar... Not sure if I should go back there immediately.[/spoiler]

[Digital_Mantra]

Um another quick question
[spoiler]about that room with the 1-hit kill pirates I asked about earlier... is it worth it/required to backtrack there?  I already climbed out, pulled off that short charge in green brinstar... Not sure if I should go back there immediately.[/spoiler]

It's just for an item, it's a good one.

[Lenophis]

Welp, I have no idea how, but I beat this.

First, the stats:


Ended up getting 13 of the 14 energy tanks, 145 missiles, 25 each of supers and power bombs, and the four reserves.

Key items: all of them.

The good:
First half of the hack felt like a good mix of exploration, backtracking, and killing. Item collection was a tad sluggish, but overall it wasn't bad.
I also enjoyed the twist inside of Tourian.

The bad:
About halfway through the hack was when I first had the "now where am I supposed to go?" feeling. I ended up visiting the Wrecked Ship and Brinstar many times just for a chance to advance.
Ninja Pirates hit like 4 trucks, which can be really bad when you only have 7 energy tanks.
There is a spark you have to do in Tourian that has no margin for error to accomplish. Didn't find that particularly enjoyable.
Crateria and Brinstar are probably a bit larger than they should be, and by that same token, Lower Norfair and Maridia are probably a bit smaller than they should be.
Finding the Gravity Suit and Draygon felt really dragged out.

The ugly:

• The game crashed! After exiting Brinstar's Map station, and then killing the 3 True Bosses of Zebes (Mini-Kraids), the game started to load the big pink room and then died.
• Space Jump: First, it's extremely difficult to find. I've only talked to a few people, and they ended up searching for hours for it. If not for your vague hint about "look at the initials" I wouldn't have found it as soon as I did. But that's only the half of it...
• Space Jump, the sequel!: Couple the length of time to find it, then add in the length of time just to acquire it once you find it.
• Just after picking up the Varia Suit, MetroidMst said "welcome to the worst room in the game!" Well, unfortunately Super Metroid already has one of those, but this I think we can deem Rising Hell. I get that this is a challenge hack, but the rising water, I feel, could've been delayed a small portion, or rise a tad slower to at least give the player a chance to fail and try again instead of rubbing it in their face. There's also no way to refill health from all of the spike damage you will take until you get halfway up, which, depending on skill, may not happen for several hours.
• The escape: Timer is way too short for how much trial-and-error is required.
• Maridia's Puffers. You know the three rooms I'm talking about. Using Grapple on them instantly kills you? They do 290 damage a hit with Varia? Not having Plasma is a guaranteed way to die. Even then...
• Wrecked Ship's ghosts: When you only have 2 or 3 energy tanks (I had two), and they hit you for 271 damage, it's death. It's bad enough navigating a maze, but then to have to be mindful of DODGE...
  DODGE
  ...at all times makes it much worse.

I did record my play of this, and you can see it here. It needs Snes9x 1.53, though I used the 64-bit version, I'm not sure that's required.

[Digital_Mantra]

For all your troubles Lenophis, I award you with the

• The game crashed! After exiting Brinstar's Map station, and then killing the 3 True Bosses of Zebes (Mini-Kraids), the game started to load the big pink room and then died.

Weird because I've experience the same crash leaving Plasma area with the other 3 mini-kraids during the door transition to the tanked gold pirates.
May have something to do with too much death happening onscreen? I'll keep looking into this bug.

• Just after picking up the Varia Suit, MetroidMst said "welcome to the worst room in the game!" Well, unfortunately Super Metroid already has one of those, but this I think we can deem Rising Hell. I get that this is a challenge hack, but the rising water, I feel, could've been delayed a small portion, or rise a tad slower to at least give the player a chance to fail and try again instead of rubbing it in their face. There's also no way to refill health from all of the spike damage you will take until you get halfway up, which, depending on skill, may not happen for several hours.

That's the best room I ever made.

[DSO]

I remember having crashes happen before when too many enemies were dying at once if they were the multiple explosion type, so that sounds likely.

[Lenophis]

For all your troubles Lenophis, I award you with the

My existence has been fulfilled. :cool:

[SigmaZer0]

Okay I'm completely stumped! I have been to all the areas so far with the exception of lower norfair, and can't figure out how to get there. I have 7 e-tanks, 110 missiles, 30 super and 15 power bombs. Along with Varia suit, plasma, spazer, ice, speedbooster and springball. And yet I still can't figure out where I'm going. I have found where x-ray is and now the path to get it, but without wave beam I can't open the gate that possibly leads to it. Then there's the part in the wrecked ship where the water rises and it's pretty freaking tough get all the way through the room (hoping that's the path leading to LNor after blowing the tube that leads to what is maridia). So yeah any help would be greatly appreciated!

[CaRmAgE]

Okay I'm completely stumped! I have been to all the areas so far with the exception of lower norfair, and can't figure out how to get there. I have 7 e-tanks, 110 missiles, 30 super and 15 power bombs. Along with Varia suit, plasma, spazer, ice, speedbooster and springball. And yet I still can't figure out where I'm going. ... Then there's the part in the wrecked ship where the water rises and it's pretty freaking tough get all the way through the room ...

[spoiler]Unfortunately, you have to get through that room next.  Good luck.[/spoiler]

Also, you can have up to 10 Energy Tanks at the point you're at [spoiler=Energy Tanks](9 if you didn't pull off a gravity jump earlier)[/spoiler], so you might want to look around for some more.

[Aran;Jaeger]

Funfacts:
[spoiler]
One can (inbounds/legitimately) get Powerbombs before Supers (in a tricky way with a Beetom right after Ice beam for Gauntlet Powerbombs) aswell as Gravity (right after Supers) before Varia using a Flashsuit to get past the underwater room past the Wrecked Ship room with the yellow shell leading to GT´s area. Hubert0987 is making a Theory TAS for human speedruns of it: https://www.twitch.tv/hubert0987
[/spoiler]

Edit: I got told that everyone but DMan is allowed to see this. Hubert0987 wants to surprise him when it is done. :bounce:

[LexyChan]

Soo...I've finished this hack.

As a note: I don't recommend the standup glitch, it can cause crazy slowdown like the Gadora Gate Glitch, hardlock or very awkward sprites.

Other than that, the hack was pretty interesting and challenging, even for knowing most tricks you need to know.
Also wow, that spacejump location..after I read the small hint from Mantra it made it clear for me where to search and that was pretty..well how to say, unexpected.

[MetroidX]

Hi Digital_Mantra. Is there a link to the 2008 version? I am not fond on challenges but on a great smooth adventure instead. I could not find the 2008 version. Do you happen to have it.
Thanks!

[PonchGaming]

http://beta.metroidconstruction.com/hack.php?id=32 there ye go. But AFAIK, the new one is easier than the original. And probably better.

[MetroidX]

Thanks,...wait.. so Redux is less complex? Looking at the OPs post, sounded like Redux was meant to be a more challenging hack at its core. Anyone here who's played both,,, which one would you think is easier?

[Digital_Mantra]

The easiest version was 'easy version' 2008, which is no longer available from me.
At this point it stands out as unfinished and buggy work which I would never recommend or share.

[TheAnonymousUser]

Thanks,...wait.. so Redux is less complex? Looking at the OPs post, sounded like Redux was meant to be a more challenging hack at its core.

The original cliffhanger felt more like a hack with tool assistance in mind (there's a lot of rooms which are just a patience test, in real time. The lack of save stations didn't help, either). Redux makes a lot of the rooms that required near pixel precision a lot easier (or tolerable at best)

I'm not sure how easier cliffhanger easy mode is to redux, but redux certainly is easier than the original cliffhanger.

[MetroidX]

OK, thanks for the feedback guys, sounds to me like Redux is a more polished and smoother game. I'll give it a try first. Thanks!

[CaRmAgE]

Anyone here who's played both,,, which one would you think is easier?

The older versions overall had much harder combat, even in the easy version (I never played the old, hard version).  Ridley was the worst.  I actually had to use save states mid-battle to beat that guy in the original.  In the Redux version, you have access to more energy tanks before you have to fight him.  A couple of enemies in the Redux version still hit like trucks, but not as many as in the original.

The main difficulty with the Redux version comes from performing specific tricks to make progress (although some places have some flexibility in the kinds of tricks you can perform).

[altoiddealer]

Edit:   Cheated, watched a youtube vid for hint  :blush:

[spoiler]To find high jumps.[/spoiler]

[altoiddealer]

Well, I completed the hack.

93%... over 19 hours in-game  :whoa:

[spoiler=COMMENTS]
If (big IF) I were to play this one again, playthrough time would certainly be less than half of this run.

I'm not a stranger to SM romhacks, having played and completed: Redesign (original and Redux), Eris, Super  Zero Mission, Hyper Metroid, Ice Metal, Phazon... I think a few more.

Anyway, I was capable of doing most of the tricks required (and optional) in this hack, having learned them to overcome the one or two obstacles they were needed in other hacks.  To me, this was a beautifully crafted, full-game SM training camp.  The same tricks were required over and over and over again, everywhere they could fit, which became a bit more challenging on each instance.  The real scary obstacles were introduced once I was too deep in the game to just drag the hack into the Recycle Bin and start licking my wounds.  Overcoming these was very rewarding.  :twisted:

New techniques this hack taught me: HBJ and super short charge.  The latter was very difficult, but I'm glad to finally know how to do it.

ANNOYANCES:
The two rooms requiring HBJ to reach the chozo statue should be reversed.  As I pointed out in a previous post, the first one punishes every failed attempt with water to trudge through, a tide to wait for to jump, plus needing a good walljump or you have to wait in the water again for the tide.  The second room found much later in the game, is practically identical except there is no water, and there is actually a freaking "vacuum tube" to help the player try again faster than if it was just normal ground!

I have no clue how to get the Super Missile expansion after the 4 mini-Kraids and the vertical climb.

The rising water room that everyone hates: this needs a halfway point.  It's just so much to have to redo if you fail at the very end. I would never have figured out how to get through the robot blocking that door if I didn't see it in a video.

The one-hit kill hoppers are NOT FAIR.

Escape sequence was underwhelming.  It was kind of easy compared to at least 2 of the few hacks I named.  I was expecting 10 grueling minutes of every trick in the book (minus super short charge, which would just be unfair).

I'm just terrible at riddles, and the game punished me for that in the search for Space Jump.  I actually popped into the room that turned out to have the hidden entrance, and just failed by not using XRay before resuming the search.  I had to cheat by running to YouTube to find it.  So this was my fault for not being clever enough, but I would recommend at least putting a visual clue directly on the entrance.  Someone posted that it was required in Tourian... was it?  I don't remember going through anywhere it was needed.


Soooo.... I applaud you DMan for a very excellent and unique hack.[/spoiler]

[CaRmAgE]

[spoiler=COMMENTS]
I have no clue how to get the Super Missile expansion after the 4 mini-Kraids and the vertical climb.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Solution]You're supposed to wall-jump along the right side of that vertical room.  Once up there, fire a super through the opening to unlock the door.  Then, you have to go back to the vertical room that has the elevator, take the bottom-left door, and follow the path.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=COMMENTS]
The one-hit kill hoppers are NOT FAIR.
[/spoiler]

Yeah, I hate them, too.  The fact that there's not enough room in Melkabah to kill them before they get you is really annoying.  At least the skull enemies in the ship don't hit like trucks anymore (I think they hit for about 40 tanks in the original instead of 3).

[spoiler=COMMENTS]
Someone posted that it was required in Tourian... was it?  I don't remember going through anywhere it was needed.
[/spoiler]

I'm pretty sure it's required to reach the statue in the second room.

[LexyChan]

It is required to unlock? the Statue's purpose IIRC. Don't hit on me if I'm wrong there since I can't test it anymore and I don't have any close save to check it. 

[Digital_Mantra]

Cheers for the feedback altoid, not changing anything you suggested but glad you learned stuff and enjoyed it. You nailed it on the premise, it's all practice honing gameplay.

alt/carm/lexy, yeah space jump is coded in vanilla for golden chozo to grip the player and lower the acid (or in this case the chozo to will the acid out of existence).

[altoiddealer]

alt/carm/lexy, yeah space jump is coded in vanilla for golden chozo to grip the player and lower the acid (or in this case the chozo to will the acid out of existence).

Interesting!  Did not know!

[InfestedRabite]

OK, I've lurked around this board for years playing through hacks but this is the first time I've needed to sign up and ask for help that I couldn't find through reading the thread or watching other LPs/speedruns.

Is there a way back to Eldridge that doesn't involve some serious IBJing? I've found the path that led up to it in the original Cliffhanger, after the 3rd Hell Run - but I'm not making it up that shaft with my current bag of tricks. The other paths (original entrance, metroid room) are blocked by grey doors and blue gates. Other videos show people just bomb jumping up here (or in the case of that dude with the well edited video on youtube, having everything else before he gets here) but it seems a little much even for this hack - thought you only had to do that insane grapple-to-three-bomb-jump before Crocomire.

I have [spoiler]9 eTanks, 4 reserve, supers/PBs, grapple, all beams but wave, morph/bomb/spring, speed booster. Would love high jump boots but couldn't find the way through Melfad to grab them.[/spoiler]

Cheers.

[InfestedRabite]

OK, I've lurked around this board for years playing through hacks but this is the first time I've needed to sign up and ask for help that I couldn't find through reading the thread or watching other LPs/speedruns.

Is there a way back to Eldridge that doesn't involve some serious IBJing? I've found the path that led up to it in the original Cliffhanger, after the 3rd Hell Run - but I'm not making it up that shaft with my current bag of tricks. The other paths (original entrance, metroid room) are blocked by grey doors and blue gates. Other videos show people just bomb jumping up here (or in the case of that dude with the well edited video on youtube, having everything else before he gets here) but it seems a little much even for this hack - thought you only had to do that insane grapple-to-three-bomb-jump before Crocomire.

I have [spoiler]9 eTanks, 4 reserve, supers/PBs, grapple, all beams but wave, morph/bomb/spring, speed booster. Would love high jump boots but couldn't find the way through Melfad to grab them.[/spoiler]

Cheers.

Disregard this, turns out I can HBJ without abusing slowdown now. Only fell down to the bottom once as well.