Super Metroid: The Inverted Castle

[Phazar]

There's no such thing as mad wall jumping skills. You do or do not. There is no try.

Fix'd.

Anyway, this is an interesting idea.  Love to try this out when it is released, although I have a feeling that the IBJs could suck.

[lordawsome12]

So far from what I've seen the IBJ's are only for sequence breaking (either that or going left from the ship with out space jump)
I've also been thinking about what to do with certain bosses that can't be flipped and the entrances to there rooms might need to be modified  :sad:
Oh yeah and thanks to person107 for pointing that out about the hole back ground flipping and I just might give it a whirl. :heheh:
And it's an Easter egg upside down hack.
<Edit>
It worked now the hack truly looks upside down

[squishy_ichigo]

If you wanted to play a hack when samus, enemies, bosses, EVERYTHING was upsidedown, just flip your damn computer screen around :P

* squishy_ichigo just found something to do for the night

Also, this:
Whats better then a hack thats flipped 180? A HACK THATS FLIPPED 270!

inb4 praise showering

[lordawsome12]

Hey guess what... I noticed I forgot to add in a legitimate pic of the entire landing site.
sooooo.....

Falling Up
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Oh yeah and the problems people are talking about with the liquid, two things are gonna happen:
1. In open "ceiling" rooms it's going to be raining to emulate that the water is falling from the "Bottom."
2. In regular closed rooms the water will just fall to the top.
(lol confusing lingo... I guess it would be easier to talk in the perspective of Samus, but that's no fun.) :lol:

[personitis]

You know, I almost want to say that it's very well possible to wall jump up the right side to the top right door. At least it looks possible...

[Tyjet66]

You know, I almost want to say that it's very well possible to wall jump up the right side to the top right door. At least it looks possible...

It is possible, but it requires A LOT of precision which will be hard for most players. And as for the poll, I'm comfortable with any new material as the same old same old hacks/vanilla gets boring after while, so something new to do is always welcome.

[Quietus]

Getting to that door would be no different to getting into the Gauntlet early.  Easy peasy. :^_^:

[Tyjet66]

Getting to that door would be no different to getting into the Gauntlet early.  Easy peasy. :^_^:

I was never able to walljump into early gauntlet, I always had to IBJ...

[Lunaria]

Getting to that door would be no different to getting into the Gauntlet early.  Easy peasy. :^_^:

...

* Crys punches Quietus in the face

Anyone who says that's an easy wall jump have no clue about what's hard what's not.

[Quietus]

It would take just two wall-jumps, both of which would need to be at the lower part of each block.  You'd then be at the middle, flat part.  Repeat for the upper part, and you'd be done.  Compared to some of the tricks required in hacks, that's not hard at all.  I didn't say it was easy, but what's hard is entirely a different ball game.

[Tyjet66]

It would take just two wall-jumps, both of which would need to be at the lower part of each block.  You'd then be at the middle, flat part.  Repeat for the upper part, and you'd be done.  Compared to some of the tricks required in hacks, that's not hard at all.  I didn't say it was easy, but what's hard is entirely a different ball game.

Hard = Walljumping up this:

Code Select Expand


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[Quietus]

I understand what Crys said, but I guess it's entirely subjective.  Any form of wall-jumping is fine to me, as I'm so used to doing it.  How would you compare that to things like Morphing up to bombs in Cliffhanger?  I could never manage it, and always had to switch to the easy version and back to bypass it.  That to me is a hard trick, but like I said, I guess it's entirely down to individuals.

[VideoGeemer]

I didn't say it was easy, but what's hard is entirely a different ball game.

Actually, you did. "Easy peasy." ;)

Oh yeah and the problems people are talking about with the liquid, two things are gonna happen:
1. In open "ceiling" rooms it's going to be raining to emulate that the water is falling from the "Bottom."
2. In regular closed rooms the water will just fall to the top.

So wait, they're not consistent? This seems weird to me. Or are they, and I'm just not understanding what you mean by "bottom"? I would think that if the game gravity will have water/lava, etc at the "new bottom" (old top) then rain should fall the same direction. Almost like the planet was flipped upside down, yet gravity did not flip with it, hehe.

This does have some problems though. I imagine Norfair wil be a bitch when you have flat ceilings lined with lava and dragons, but nowhere to stand. Also, Crocomire's room might be impossible to flip properly; you might just have to have his door in the bottom of his room, but with the same orientation (only backwards) once inside.


I really like the landing site; it's great. :)


VG

[Hiroshi Mishima]

Good job ensuring that a good chunk of the Super Metroid playing community will probably dislike this. I mean the whole subject of what is hard to do and what isn't. People who think it's all super easy need to step back, actually think about what the hell they're saying, and then realize not everyone has that kinda skill or gameplay ability.

I personally have never managed an Infinite Bomb Jump outside of MZM, and even that takes a while to get right, and I can't hold it for very long. I mean I've been playing Super Metroid since the day it came out, and I'm willing to say I think I'm pretty good at it. But you really will piss off players by expecting them to pull off something as ridiculous as that. Don't automatically assume that a "it's hard so it must be better!" and everyone will rejoice. Same with making things different. Just look at what Redesign caused with it's changes.

But no, when you get right down to the simple facts, there's this one: In Symphony of the Night once you reach the Inverted Castle YOU HAVE ALL THE NECESSARY MOVES. Super Jump, Double Jump, Breathing Underwater, etc.. So it was a no brainer to expect that people could easily navigate the upside down map.

Also, SotN's Inverted Castle replaced all the enemies and bosses with new ones, are you gonna do the same with this? And you can probably "flip" Botwoon as all you really need to do is change the sprite a little. Although I think that's the only one that'd probably work for. Unless you wanna do a shit ton of ASM coding, but even then I'm not sure you'd be able to flip bosses like MB, Crocomire and so on...

Just my two cents, mind you, but I seriously think that saying it's simple to do stuff like that is waaaay overstepping what you assume about other players. Yes, some will be able to probably pull it off, but not all. The lesser skilled players tend to outweigh the more skilled players. Even people who've been playing it for years.

[Tyjet66]

Good job ensuring that a good chunk of the Super Metroid playing community will probably dislike this.

Wow... Good job being a dick...

Anyways, I was thinking more about this and I was wondering, what about crumble blocks? The example I'm thinking of is exiting through the back of the gauntlet.Are you going to make it so you can fall through the bottom (the normal room flipped upsidedown) or are you going to change the block type to allow you to go up through them but not down (like what square BTS blocks would do?)

[Hiroshi Mishima]

Good job missing my point. Now back off, I'm making an honest to goodness point that is very freaking valid. A romhacker NEEDS to be able to acknowledge his players and recognize that a feature the creator may find fun and neat, may also be wall-bangingly hard for other players. That's what I mean by don't alienate the userbase, and my warning about Redesign was that it did just that. It may have been a good game for a lotta people, but even more complained about it.

[NAM]

I'm going to have to side with Hiroshi, Tyjet.

He's basically just saying that some of the skills everyone is saying they "have" probably 1. Don't exist or 2. Will fail them at one point or another. This hack will be good if it won't take balls-to-the-wall-difficult skills. Is there any chance of you editing the rooms just a little bit to make things easier to navigate, like random platforms or the platform enemies?

[VideoGeemer]

I'm going to have to side with Hiroshi, Tyjet.

He's basically just saying that some of the skills everyone is saying they "have" probably 1. Don't exist or 2. Will fail them at one point or another. This hack will be good if it won't take balls-to-the-wall-difficult skills. Is there any chance of you editing the rooms just a little bit to make things easier to navigate, like random platforms or the platform enemies?

I still think making those walls like the ones you can walk through will allow you to wall jump right through those difficult sections. I thiknk most people can wall jump up a straight vertical surface.

*looks up what the "gaulntlet" is* ... Oh, that place


I got up to there with walljump too, but the screenshot made it look like it'd be a lot more difficult to walljump that area cpoming from the other direction.


And perhaps crumble blocks should just be changed to normal weapons-disappearing blocks.


As for bosses, I don't see what else to do than to leave their rooms the way they were. After all, the game gravity will still have bosses walking on the same floor that Samus is on (so the ceiling of the room), and spawning recgarge enemies will likely do the same. Botwoon should be easy. For the others, it would be trying to flip horizontal movements, which might be difficult.

Some of the Norfair rooms are still gonna be a bitch.

Honestly, maybe an early Space Jump isn't such a horrible idea after all. :\.... It is an easter egg hack, after all.


LOL, I just thought of this. What if there was one long passable (invisible passage, would still look solid) tube that would lead directly to space jump in Maridia? That could be interesting, though it would be a noticeabe change to the game ... but perhaps preferable to having space jump just sitting there outside the ship, waiting for you...


VG

[Hiroshi Mishima]

Hang on here a tick... I think we've been talking about something under a misconception. When I went off earlier it's because I thought we were going to have to go from the Ship to the upper LEFT side of the room. And as I was re-reading the posts I noticed a few things that didn't make sense until I saw someone mention upper-right.

The upper right corner... I could probably swing that, preferably with Hi-Jump so I get a better lift. But what I mean is that all this time I thought we were talking about trying to get the the upper left corner door, and that's why people like Quietus and others saying how easy or simple it was kept baffling me. I thought they were nutters to expect people to make that huge gap between the ship and the ledge leading to the upper left corner... not the wall on the right side.

Although I must say the bit towards the top where the space between the angled tiles is.. rather small, could be somewhat tricky especially if you're not a great wall jumper. But no, I'd have to try that first before I really make up my mind how hard that is. And I apologize for the misunderstanding and the heated demeanor in my previous posts. I don't go out trying to cause trouble, I just want to make sure people don't go overboard and lose the audience...

[VideoGeemer]

Upper right could be very difficult, or it could be pretty easy. It's hard to tell from the screenshot if Samus coule make it over and up enough. Upper left I think would take some IBJing to get to the platform, and maybe again to et to the steps (if jumping high enough isn't possible).

LOL, maybe this just needs to get play-tested. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with bomb jumping to the ledge, but that's just me. As long as I can get to the upper right in the beginning, hehe.

VG

[Digital_Mantra]

INVERTED ZEBES FTW


YOU HAVE TO BEAT SM FIRST AFTER YOU COLLECT THE TWO FOSSILIZED CHOZO FECAL LOGS AND WEAR THEM ON YOUR.. SUIT.
WHEN THE SKY HITS.. EVENING.

[edit]: LAST BOSS IS FATHER BRAIN.

OH AND THE ENDING THEME IS NOW SOME GAY ASS SOFT WAVE JAZZ SONG. IT GOES LIKE THIS:

~JUST LIKE THE WIND (OF ZEBES), ILL ALWAYS BE (A BOUNTY HUNTER),
DRIFTING HIGH ABOVE THE SKY (OF ZEBES) THAT NEVER ENDS (THAT EXPLODES).

~I AM THE WIND (OF CHOZO LUSH), I AM THE SUN (OF BOUNTY HUNTERS).
AND ONE DAY (CYCLE), WE'LL ALL BE ONE (WITH PHAZON).

SING ALONG

[interdpth]

I want what Digital Mantra is having.

[Black Telomeres]

I am now looking forward to a Metroid parody of the ending sequence of SotN.

[Quietus]

If you're the BT I think you are, welcome here, welcome back, and I hope you get back into hacking. :^_^:

[VideoGeemer]

[edit]: LAST BOSS IS FATHER BRAIN.

Actually, good sir, it's Father Feces. You forgot to invert the brain part.


VG