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An Emulator Of Choice...

Started by MetroidPeter, June 24, 2015, 11:55:07 AM

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MetroidPeter

I use ZSNES to run my ROMs, but I've been hearing all over the net that ZSNES is terrible and that anyone using it is simply blindly clinging to nostalgia, or something stupid like that.

What emulator do you use to play your hacks and why?

I like ZSNES because of it's simplicity and easy to understand GUI, also rewinding. Anyone else gonna fill their 2 cents in?

Retroo

I use Snes9X on Super Metroid, sometimes i play Super Mario World hacks and then i use ZSNES just so i dont have do change the inputs everytime i change from SM to SMW.

thedopefish

ZSNES gets more hate than it deserves, because the internet loves hyperbole.  It's not a terrible emulator, it's just that it hasn't been updated in many many years and there are strictly better alternatives available.  It does have some inaccurate emulation (notably, it's bad at handling lag), and there's that arbitrary code execution bug that just surfaced, so if you haven't already switched off ZSNES, you should probably think about doing so.

The best options (besides "play on console") are bsnes/higan or some variant of snes9x.  If you're clinging to ZSNES just because you like the GUI, I recently learned this exists, might want to check it out.

Mtgxyz

I'm currently using snes9x on my Mobile and bsnes on my pc - the only reason why the sectors of my HDD with zsnes aren't wiped is to test my script which should hang the game on zsnes.

Oh well. Dopefish: The main reason why zsnes is being hated by some/many people is it's inaccuracy. Snes9x is inaccurate too (See super-MMC-emulation and decimal mode) but at least it passes the SNES-Aging-cassette-tests.

I strongly suggest that you use a more accurate emulator than zsnes (if you are good read "higan") and try to make every hack as compatible as possible with the snes.

I'm going to edit the post when I found the link with zsnes inaccuracies-

The Envoy of the Beginning

Quote from: Mtgxyz on June 24, 2015, 12:17:39 PM
I'm going to edit the post when I found the link with zsnes inaccuracies-
You mean this one?

MetroidPeter

Forgot to mention this in my original post but... ZSNES' NTSC filter: OMFG TFW NOSTALGIA IS REAL!!

Also, I would use Snes9x, but it either crashes my computer because it's incompatible with some of my software, or it doesn't run at all for the same reason.

Also, just tried ZMZ, I think it might just be my new main emulator.

Mtgxyz

lol what kind of exotic software do you use

@blackSolider: Thanks

Lunaria

As dopefish mentioned, it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.

I personally recommend higan if you want the best accuracy. (And if you don't care about that, well, what's the point in switching?) :p

Mtgxyz

#8
Well - theres one point in switching: you can't play all games without higan.
There are emulation errors in super metroid too - but as this game is one of the most popular snes games out there, the emulation errors are so little, that you can't see them. No popular emulator supports the decimal mode. ZSNES only supports popular games. Confront it with a uncommon game and it will be screwed. ZSNES also don't like the H-counter lol.
Nevermind. It would be too much to post it here.
Just two code examples how buggy those two emus are:

sed
lda #$05
adc #$05
cmp #$10 ;Higan has $10 as result. Zsnes and snes9x have calculated the value $0A here...
bne buggy


lda $213F ;Access lo
lda $2137 ;Latch h-counter
lda $213C ;get counter value
cmp $213F ;Access lo again
cmp $2137 ;Relatch h-counter
cmp $213C ;Compare with current h-counter-val
beq buggy ;ZSNES either has 0 or 4 as h-counter.
clc
adc #$4
cmp $213C ;Recheck
beq buggy
sec
sbc #$8
cmp $213C
beq buggy
;SNES9x and higan get here

I counted the timing out. The time between the two latches is 24 master cycles (or 48. I'm not sure) which means that the screen rendered about 6 additional pixels, meaning tha were safe with #4 pixels^^

Quietus

I've always used ZSNES unless I'm recording gameplay, in which case I have used snes9x (though I'd likely now use BizHawk).

MetroidPeter

#10
For those wondering, the reason I asked is because there's a really annoying glitch with ZSNES where sometimes I rewind and it starts to make this crazy loud WHRZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ sound and it scares the crap out of me every time it happens.

I would put a link to it, but I'm not sure if I'd get banned for doing so, can an admin tell me if I can do so or not?

Here's a video demonstrating it, skip to 7:13 for the glitch. And obviously, TURN YOUR VOLUME DOWN IF YOU LIKE HAVING EARS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA2sJ-pneSU

Quietus

Of course you can. :^_^:

I also know exactly what you're talking about, and it is proper scarey. I usually have my headphones on too, and it's so scarey that I'd quickly yank them off. :affraid:

I've had it happen most often when rewinding back through the door after the missile lake. Try it at your own risk!

Boomerang

I use SNES9X. It's not the most amazing emulator ever, but it's better than ZSNES and BSNES/Higan has given me issues in the past like deleting my saves twice, because it only saves upon quit. So, if your emulator freezes or the program crashes (which it is prone to do, often), say goodbye to whatever progress you've made despite saving in-game.

Xenesis

No one should use ZSNES any more either because this exists. It's bad enough that even SMW Central is going OH MY GOD KILL THIS PROGRAM WITH FIRE right now.

And like hell any of its bugs are ever gonna get fixed in a timely manner.

MetroidPeter

Quote from: thedopefish on June 24, 2015, 12:04:20 PM
The best options (besides "play on console")

Playing ROM-Hacks on an actual SNES? Lol what's that? Seriously though, is that actually possible? If so, do tell me how; it sounds interesting.

Also, I swear to god I've seen your username and icon before somewhere, I just can't remember where its from.

Xenesis

Quote from: MetroidPeter on June 25, 2015, 12:43:38 AMPlaying ROM-Hacks on an actual SNES? Lol what's that? Seriously though, is that actually possible? If so, do tell me how; it sounds interesting.

Totally possible. You either need a copier-cartridge (I don't know what specifically is available for SNES, but it is out there) that supports booting ROMs through a passthrough-type situation or you can burn your own ROMs on cartridges. Not the most efficient way to do it, but it's certainly a way to test if a hack really is coded properly :)

A Dummy

I usually use ZSNES-FoSoYa, although sometimes I switch to SNES9X because it feels like ZSNES is cutting out a layer of sound.

thedopefish

Quote from: MetroidPeter on June 25, 2015, 12:43:38 AM
Playing ROM-Hacks on an actual SNES? Lol what's that? Seriously though, is that actually possible? If so, do tell me how; it sounds interesting.

You use an SNES Flash Cart, which is a device that looks like an SNES cartridge but contains an SD-card or some other flash memory upon which you can copy ROMs.  They're rather popular with speedrunners and SNES enthusiasts, but still pretty niche so they're likely to be somewhat expensive.  A couple examples are the SD2SNES, the Super Everdrive, and the PowerPak.

Quote from: MetroidPeter on June 25, 2015, 12:43:38 AM
Also, I swear to god I've seen your username and icon before somewhere, I just can't remember where its from.

I am far from the only person using this name/image on the Internet.  If it was from somewhere metroid related, or a speedrunner's stream, or the Nintendo DS homebrew community, then it was probably me.  Otherwise, it was just another fan of old DOS games.

JAM

I'm using 8Mb version of ZSNES.
Why?
1. Nostalgia.
2. Works without flaws even on my ancient machine (P II)

Quote from: Mtgxyz on June 24, 2015, 02:03:54 PM

sed
lda #$05
adc #$05
cmp #$10 ;Higan has $10 as result. Zsnes and snes9x have calculated the value $0A here...
bne buggy

LOL'ed at SED. In 65C816... If you meant SEP #$08 (or #$28) with same result, then yes, it's buggy...

Zhs2

Quote from: thedopefish on July 08, 2015, 02:28:29 PM
Quote from: MetroidPeter on June 25, 2015, 12:43:38 AM
Also, I swear to god I've seen your username and icon before somewhere, I just can't remember where its from.

I am far from the only person using this name/image on the Internet.  If it was from somewhere metroid related, or a speedrunner's stream, or the Nintendo DS homebrew community, then it was probably me.  Otherwise, it was just another fan of old DOS games.

[spoiler=He has quite the following.][/spoiler]

A Dummy

I take back what I said about Zsnes being the one I use.  Now UOsnes is my favorite for the single reason that it's the first emulator I've found that plays the Super Mario RPG sounds with 100% accuracy.

JAM

Quote from: Mtgxyz on June 24, 2015, 12:17:39 PM
I strongly suggest that you use a more accurate emulator than zsnes (if you are good read "higan") and try to make every hack as compatible as possible with the snes.
I tried higan and... what a piece of shit! Yes, it's accurate and... we're done with pros.

Cons:
•No fullscreen mode.
•VEEEEEERYYYYYY SLOOOOOOOOOW (need mutlicore PC to not play with like 25 FPS in accurate mode).
•No screenshots.
•No movie records.
•If you run different version of emulator, you'll ruin the saves.
•Adding a game to database causes copying it to... somewhere. And altering the ROM doesn't affect anything. To take effect, ROM should be re-added. God, that stupid feature almost make me insane yesterday.
•No RAM view.

Don't want to hurt anyone, but that's what I'm thinking about it after trying. It's very useless for making and testing hacks.

Jordan5

I feel like the only reason you would choose Higan is for speedrunning games, otherwise what's the point of having lag when you don't have to?
I tend to use SNES9x just for the fact that you can type in stream chat and other places while its running which isn't possible in ZSNES. But ZSNES is nice for quick saving/loading of states from a controller and rewinding etc, as well as reducing lag which is nice in certain (So Little) hacks. At the end of the day, if you're not worried about accuracy, just pick the emulator that suits your needs best. :^_^:

Parabox

JAM:
It has a fullscreen mode, you have to set a hotkey for it. I don't recommend using the latest build and using v094 for now as I couldn't figure out importing ROMs. It is pretty resource hungry but there is also a balanced mode that works fine, don't know if byuu removed the fast version. It doesn't have built in screenshot and video recording functions because it's an emulator, and it should do emulator-type things, and do them well. I do agree that byuu is a really fucking whimsical dev and that changes between versions are incredibly annoying and obtuse, just because he fetishizes over whatever current OS he thinks isn't too much of a fast moving target. Importing a ROM creates a folder with a ROM, RAM and a BML (byuu's XML) file (all à la OS X, one of the whims I just described), which on a Unix-like system (OS X, FreeBSD, Linux) is in /home/(user)/Emulation and on Windows is (iirc) in C:\Users\(User)\Emulation. If you import a ROM that needs DSPx, BS-X BIOS, or other stuff like that to run, they need to be in the same folder as the ROM/archive is, except the GBA BIOS, which you need to place in ~\Game Boy Advance.sys\ iirc. Also, Higan has a built in tracer and memory exporter which you also need to bind hotkeys for.

This is not to attack your critique of/annoyances with Higan, but just to set everyone on the same page.

Lazymoth

I used ZSNES for like 15 years solid because I always just perceived it as the de facto "good SNES emulator." But just earlier this year I finally tried a new SNES9x build, and man, I like it a lot. I really like the graphics filters it has available.

I still use ZSNES for netplay, though, because Kaillera never works that well for me.