SM Redesign: Axeil Edition FINAL

[fxblue]

Sandfalls in Maridia are almost consistent with below water and above water mechanics. Except this room which breaks all of the established rules and I can spacejump forever.


To Drew's credit immediately after getting spacejump you're introduced to the despin sandfalls above water, then underwater, then both. However until I really went back and looked at each sandfall I can't say this occured to me and just felt random when it would work. Due to the sandfalls looking exactly the same the player only expects one mechanic (Sand pushes me down, harder to jump) instead of tacking on despin whenever Drew feels like it.

Even after noting the sandfalls that despin me it didnt really add a damn thing to the game in terms of enjoyment and was just a very annoying and tedious addition to Redesign. There's never even a point in the game where you can circumvent it for revisiting Maridia, like come on... spacejump + screwattack still despins?

Maridia was a definite low point for the hack in terms of enjoyment just due to how unpredictable or just plain annoying the mechanics are. There's many areas of quicksand that you can't jump out of for no reason at all, and other quicksand which you can jump pretty high out of. There's also quicksand that will crush? you if you are too deep, but that isn't even consistent at all so Maridia is just a roulette wheel to screw the player.

[Technomagus]

Sandfalls in Maridia are almost consistent with below water and above water mechanics. Except this room which breaks all of the established rules and I can spacejump forever.


To Drew's credit immediately after getting spacejump you're introduced to the despin sandfalls above water, then underwater, then both. However until I really went back and looked at each sandfall I can't say this occured to me and just felt random when it would work. Due to the sandfalls looking exactly the same the player only expects one mechanic (Sand pushes me down, harder to jump) instead of tacking on despin whenever Drew feels like it.

Even after noting the sandfalls that despin me it didnt really add a damn thing to the game in terms of enjoyment and was just a very annoying and tedious addition to Redesign. There's never even a point in the game where you can circumvent it for revisiting Maridia, like come on... spacejump + screwattack still despins?

Maridia was a definite low point for the hack in terms of enjoyment just due to how unpredictable or just plain annoying the mechanics are. There's many areas of quicksand that you can't jump out of for no reason at all, and other quicksand which you can jump pretty high out of. There's also quicksand that will crush? you if you are too deep, but that isn't even consistent at all so Maridia is just a roulette wheel to screw the player.

Welcome to Redesign.  If you're enjoying it, you're doing it wrong.

[MetroidPeter]

Welcome to Redesign.  If you're enjoying it, you're doing it wrong.

What?! That can't be right! Nobody can enjoy the hack if they want to???

[Quietus]

I think it's a jesting poke at Redesign's trolling of its players.

[Technomagus]

I think it's a jesting poke at Redesign's trolling of its players.

Hmm..  Well, I suppose that's one interpretation of my post.  Sure, we'll go with that.

[Lenophis]

I tried my best to follow all the negative feedback from players and deliver something more fluid.  there's a lot of extras added into this game too. So I'd suggest giving it a try even if you've already played the original Redesign in the past.

At this point, I think everything that can be said has been said, bug reports aside. Many things have been established about Redesign and the subsequent Axeil. Drew has made some very poor choices with both hacks, passed them off as something else which hurts his credibility; wants gratification for putting players through hell, and blames the players for their bad play.

Drew, I will ask you directly, and I expect a direct answer. Problems have been presented to you that in all fairness, need to be fixed. Are you going to fix them, yes or no? It's time to own up and face your detractors. No more hiding, no more personal attacks from either side.

[Technomagus]

I tried my best to follow all the negative feedback from players and deliver something more fluid.  there's a lot of extras added into this game too. So I'd suggest giving it a try even if you've already played the original Redesign in the past.

At this point, I think everything that can be said has been said, bug reports aside. Many things have been established about Redesign and the subsequent Axeil. Drew has made some very poor choices with both hacks, passed them off as something else which hurts his credibility; wants gratification for putting players through hell, and blames the players for their bad play.

Drew, I will ask you directly, and I expect a direct answer. Problems have been presented to you that in all fairness, need to be fixed. Are you going to fix them, yes or no? It's time to own up and face your detractors. No more hiding, no more personal attacks from either side.

I think Drew has more or less written off the forums as being worth his time, though he mentioned something in IRC a few minutes ago (being ~5:00ish EST) about adjusting the Metroids to make them easier and is in search of testers.

[Steel Sparkle]

I need a question answered. I want to LP this game in the future. Should i do 1.4 or wait till 1.5?
I honestly don't find the game to be bad. Its really fun except for tourian and maybe the Guardian hunt and the lost caverns for first time players. So should i wait or just go head strong into 1.4? I apologize if this isn't something i should post here.

[Technomagus]

I need a question answered. I want to LP this game in the future. Should i do 1.4 or wait till 1.5?
I honestly don't find the game to be bad. Its really fun except for tourian and maybe the Guardian hunt and the lost caverns for first time players. So should i wait or just go head strong into 1.4? I apologize if this isn't something i should post here.

My LP was 1.4.  Supposedly, 1.5 is going to seriously nerf Tourian to make it actually tolerable, as well as decrease the number of Purple Doors in order to allow you to actually use your ammo more; so you might want to wait for that, but it's probably going to be a ways out while Drew makes the last tweaks.  1.4 is completable as it is, though you might break a few controllers getting through Tourian along the way.

[Quietus]

I'd say wait, and go with v1.5. My reasoning would be that the plan is for viewers to watch it, and it makes sense that that'll happen in the future, so you therefore have more chance of them being able to relate to what you're playing, whereas with v1.4, it'll already be out of date.

[Steel Sparkle]

Okay thanks you 2. I will wait.. Im already juggling Hyper metroid and Axiom Verge as is. I have plenty of things i can do while i wait for 1.5. Again thanks.  :^_^:

[CaRmAgE]

Drewseph was much better at hiding the expansions in this version than in the original.  In the original, the 10s were almost always in corners, on bumps of the terrain, etc.
[spoiler=Crateria 10-missile expansion]Over an acid pit?  Who would think to take time to search around there?  Granted, it was the only square metal block in that room, but still...[/spoiler]

[spoiler=EPB]I only decided to try EPB after this just for the promise of all Tourian doors unlocked, so I can skip the irritating Metroids.[/spoiler]

EPB stuff
[spoiler]This escape from lower norfair is killing me, I had to revert to a old save to find 3 more etanks before i could take on ridley. Its shitty i have to go from that save above him then through a couple rooms and up to refill before i can try the escape again, I can get into the third room but im wondering if its possible to grab plasma while im here or if its locked out of the challenge.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Ridley EPB strat]Had exactly as many tanks as you, but no older save to go back to.  Fortunately, CF saved the day, and on my successful attempt, I only lost 4 tanks to Ridley (did not need to CF during the fight, never fired a single missile).  I stood on the beaks of the statues, so his fireball explosions on the back wall wouldn't reach me; I also waited to jump until right when he would fire at me.  As a result the only times I really got damaged were when he fired at me and charged at the same time (don't think you can really do anything about that).[/spoiler]

[spoiler=EPB Lower Norfair]The escape was brutal for me, too, but CF yet again saved my hide (kind of risky, though, considering I only had 7 supers max).  I think the room that required the most attempts from me was the one with the stupid purple door.[/spoiler]

EDIT:
[spoiler=EPB Maridia]How the heck do you get in?  I have tried accessing every one of the elevators with no success.
Top-left (Tourian Access): Blocked by rubble.
Bottom-left (Brinstar): Was able to climb the shaft, but there's a Maridia tube in the way!
Bottom-right (Kraid): Unscalable; I see no enemies to dislodge from walls and freeze.
Top-right (Crateria Depths): Currently in the room before the tunnel to this elevator, but it doesn't look like the ledge with the door is reachable (it's bad enough that, if I fall to the bottom of the room, it's game over).  I thought there could possibly be a secret tunnel that drops me by the door, but X-ray revealed nothing, and I tried moving the morph ball into a bunch of different suspicious spots and powerbombing.  The closest I got to the door was by rolling off a frozen fish into unmorph, but I lose all my horizontal velocity when I unmorph.[/spoiler]

EDIT 2:
[spoiler=EPB Maridia]Did not realize touching water does not kill your shinespark charge.  Now I am stuck trying to get out of the eastern portion of Maridia.  I am currently in a huge room, which, based on the map, is somewhere above Kraid's room.  I can get to the left side of the room through a hidden morph ball tunnel under the quicksand, but there aren't enough fish to freeze to climb to the top, and the pirates can't be frozen.  Am I even going the right way?  Do I have to do something crazy, like X-ray climb?[/spoiler]

[Zeke]

Wrong way, but no X-ray climb. IIRC, look for a tall room where you can freeze fish.

[CaRmAgE]

Wrong way, but no X-ray climb. IIRC, look for a tall room where you can freeze fish.

[spoiler=EPB Maridia]Well, that's irritating.  I'll have to load my hard save, because I can't jump high enough to get back out of that room.  I scouted around on my first playthrough file to see if the other path I was thinking of (by going further up the shaft with the morph ball tunnel) would be possible to traverse, but I guess more enemies exist when you don't have gravity.[/spoiler]

I just assumed X-ray climb would still be in this hack, because turning with it still forces you to stand up; used it to do a (minor) ceiling clip once.

[Zeke]

By "no X-ray climb" I just mean you never need it. I have no idea whether it's been removed; I class it among the "unfair" glitches and therefore haven't bothered learning it.

Keep multiple states at different points in Maridia (and Crateria Depths). It's ridiculously easy to get permastuck.

[Drewseph]

Sandfalls in Maridia are almost consistent with below water and above water mechanics. Except this room which breaks all of the established rules and I can spacejump forever.


To Drew's credit immediately after getting spacejump you're introduced to the despin sandfalls above water, then underwater, then both. However until I really went back and looked at each sandfall I can't say this occured to me and just felt random when it would work. Due to the sandfalls looking exactly the same the player only expects one mechanic (Sand pushes me down, harder to jump) instead of tacking on despin whenever Drew feels like it.

Even after noting the sandfalls that despin me it didnt really add a damn thing to the game in terms of enjoyment and was just a very annoying and tedious addition to Redesign. There's never even a point in the game where you can circumvent it for revisiting Maridia, like come on... spacejump + screwattack still despins?

Maridia was a definite low point for the hack in terms of enjoyment just due to how unpredictable or just plain annoying the mechanics are. There's many areas of quicksand that you can't jump out of for no reason at all, and other quicksand which you can jump pretty high out of. There's also quicksand that will crush? you if you are too deep, but that isn't even consistent at all so Maridia is just a roulette wheel to screw the player.

I didn't even realize that room didn't have the proper BTS for sandfalls.  not sure what causes the can't jump out of sand glitch though. I think its the physics change from jumping from QS BTS to air, because the jump speeds are different when touching the BTS.

[CaRmAgE]

[spoiler=EPB Maridia dead end]I have been trolled again.  I thought I needed to scale the large room connected to Botwoon's room, starting from the middle, but there's definitely no way that's happening.  I think I am in the clear now, though. Thanks.[/spoiler]

EDIT:

[spoiler=EPB Maridia dead end (continued)]Wait, I have to damage boost off of THAT?!?  But I have to jump to initiate a boost! :whoa:[/spoiler]

Keep multiple states at different points in Maridia (and Crateria Depths). It's ridiculously easy to get permastuck.

Typically, I try to avoid using save states whenever possible due to their effect on hard saves.  I once lost my entire progress for a game due to an accidental quickload (so I now keep the save/load hotkeys unbound).  That said, I am using one save state slot for the hard jumps, but...
[spoiler=EPB save spot]I was able to access the express elevator to Norfair above that sandfall, so even if I somehow accidentally state save in another permastuck situation, I won't lose too much progress.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=EPB Maridia]Also, that one room is the only one I have seen it possible to get permastuck in Maridia so far (that's not a morphball tunnel at least), and I am pretty close to the end (just two more floors to scale).  I was even able to get to the recharge station at the bottom of the map and back on the route (although the jump to get back is really hard).[/spoiler]

EDIT 2:
Finally made it to Tourian, but it's getting late for me now.  Will post my thoughts tomorrow once I finish.
[spoiler=EPB stats]
12 Energy Tanks
1 Reserve Tank
163 Missiles
16 Super Missiles
17 Power Bombs
All major upgrades, except gravity (blocked), plasma (requires gravity), beam combo (requires bomb), screw attack (requires bomb), and space jump (also blocked).
[/spoiler]

[Zeke]

You're just unlucky with your timing, mage. I'm about half done the mini-FAQ I mentioned -- it would've helped you with all these sticking points.

Oh yeah! Forgot to mention I finished off EPB a while ago. 14:50, 59.4%. As promised, fuller comments will follow. I'll say this much now: although unfair to the point of vulgarity, this still had nothing that quite tops the outrageous red lock puzzle in SZM Hard. That one killed my interest in the hack for years, despite all the trouble I'd gone to, and to this day I still have no idea how I finally got past the gate. So there's a circle of wtf hell even beyond EPB.

Drew, since you apparently are watching after all, my question wasn't rhetorical. Why the 21 blocks? Why such a radical break with the organic game design principles SMR otherwise exemplifies?

[CaRmAgE]

You're just unlucky with your timing, mage. I'm about half done the mini-FAQ I mentioned -- it would've helped you with all these sticking points.

I am going to be ranting about that damage boosting mechanic, since it seems to be somewhat broken, but, again, I'll save it for when I finish the challenge.

Oh yeah! Forgot to mention I finished off EPB a while ago. 14:50, 59.4%. As promised, fuller comments will follow. I'll say this much now: although unfair to the point of vulgarity, this still had nothing that quite tops the outrageous red lock puzzle in SZM Hard. That one killed my interest in the hack for years, despite all the trouble I'd gone to, and to this day I still have no idea how I finally got past the gate. So there's a circle of wtf hell even beyond EPB.

My time is currently around 8 hours right now, so I guess I shouldn't complain (although I did have to do the LN escape twice).

I have never tried the hard version of that hack, mainly because the normal version was good enough for me (although, I did not find the Tourian missile gauntlet as hard as others mentioned due to having "checkpoints" after every trick).  That first mockball trick I saw also turned me off from hard mode.

Drew, since you apparently are watching after all, my question wasn't rhetorical. Why the 21 blocks? Why such a radical break with the organic game design principles SMR otherwise exemplifies?

Speaking of which, I found another location where I think he literally spammed an entire intersection with those things (btw, I am not using SMILE; just observing my charge loss).  It's at the shaft before the first missile expansion.  No matter if you use the EPB tunnel or the one below it to charge a spark, reaching the intersection at all makes you lose it.  The worst part is that he could've just put another EPB blockade with a morph ball tunnel right before the gate (he's done it before in other places in Crateria), and it would've had the same effect, just without the BS.

not sure what causes the can't jump out of sand glitch though. I think its the physics change from jumping from QS BTS to air, because the jump speeds are different when touching the BTS.

I think fxblue might be referring to [spoiler=Maridia secret]the area below the quicksand pit at the top of Maridia, where you use an elevator to get back out.  The left pit is fine, but the right quicksand pit is brutal.  I understand if you want players to have Space Jump for that PB expansion, but the ceiling is currently too low to Space Jump over there with the minimum velocity restriction in place.  As a result, you have to spam-jump your way out to get the expansion, like in the original, and it is probably not a pleasant experience for some players.[/spoiler]

EDIT:

[spoiler=EPB Final stats]
So I had to take one acid bath just to save the animals, but I didn't lose most of my energy, so I'm not complaining.

Time: 9:50
Item Collection: 61.4%
Distance traveled: 185.12km
Energy lost: 36,333
Enemies killed: 2,879
Shots fired: 18,837
Doors traversed: 1,690

I was sure I was pretty thorough looking for expansions, so I have no clue how Hitaka was able to get 4.1% more (unless Drewseph blocked access to more expansions in later versions).  There was only one expansion I was uncertain about (a super in eastern Maridia), but the route through the quicksand seemed to be blocked.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=EPB Thoughts]Damage boosting felt like a TAS-only technique due to how glitchy it was.  First, I would sometimes turn in the air while getting damaged instead of getting the boost.  Other times, I would get a boost, but it would not work as advertised.  Example: I get hit immediately after jumping -> no vertical boost; I wait to get hit a little longer -> I DO get the vertical boost, meaning either Drewseph is not telling the whole truth, or the mechanic is not working properly.

Other than the damage boosting, I did not have much trouble with the EPB route, save for this one big false advertisement:

All locked doors are unlocked in tourian, just avoid the metroids, which can be repelled in EPB mode by PB's  Repelled and max stunned

I am going to break this apart to explain what I am talking about with each one.

All locked doors are unlocked in tourian,

I think you meant "All locked door in metroid rooms are unlocked in tourian," because there were still locked doors in places I expected to be unlocked.  I understand why the escape route would still be locked, but I guess that was just a poor choice of words.

just avoid the metroids,

I wish I could, but you can't walk through a door with a Metroid on your head.  Use a Power Bomb?  Well, I am glad you asked, because...

which can be repelled in EPB mode by PB's

...this didn't work consistently.  There were 3 possible outcomes that seemed to be chosen randomly.
1. The Metroids that were attached to me were repelled and stunned.
2. Nothing happened, so I was forced to just sit there and continue getting my brains sucked out.  While it was a random occurrence most of the time, it always happened near doors, so I could never escape the room without killing them first.
3. They look like they're stunned (yellow color), but they're still attached to me and draining energy.  I think the mechanic is bugged.

and max stunned

In one 2-metroid room, I needed 6 power bombs just to get them off me, because they kept reviving in half the time.  No way it always max stuns them.

Also, I still had trouble getting ice SBA to work, not only for the reasons I mentioned before, but also because "stunned" Metroids apparently have no problems running away from me.

Granted, if these issues with power bombs were fixed, then[/spoiler] I would agree with Hitaka that adding the power bomb mechanic to normal gameplay would solve most of the issues with Metroids, since I had access to a pretty consistent strategy most of the time as a result.  Plus, it makes little sense that Metroids would somehow decide to don PB-resistant gear just because you crossed one single tripwire.

Because that's just silly.

[Drewseph]

About Damage boosts: There is a window where you get a damage boost and keep vertical speed after the start of the jump.  After that you lose vertical speed but get the damage boost. then you have another few frames where you lose damage boosting altogether, usually if you wait too long in the air before taking a hit.

$00 - $0A Frames :  Get the damage boost and keep vertical speed
$0A - $18 Frames : Get damage boost only
$18 + Nothing.  stop in air, and turn around.

Regarding the Powerbombing of the metorids, its RNG dependant, and a very high probability they will detach with 1 powerbomb,  I think you have really bad luck on that part. Locked doors meant locked doors, grey doors that you normally open are unlocked, if they were event based then they remained locked, I think my wording was correct. Glad you had "fun" completing the EPBC!  I'm surprised no one mentioned the secret song by DSO


Zeke:  About the BTS 21,  I put it in places where I didn't want a charge to be held past, sloppy?  sure, have I removed then in 1.5?  yeah. 

[CaRmAgE]

About Damage boosts: There is a window where you get a damage boost and keep vertical speed after the start of the jump.  After that you lose vertical speed but get the damage boost. then you have another few frames where you lose damage boosting altogether, usually if you wait too long in the air before taking a hit.

$00 - $0A Frames :  Get the damage boost and keep vertical speed
$0A - $18 Frames : Get damage boost only
$18 + Nothing.  stop in air, and turn around.

So I guess what was happening to me was that I would have jumps where I did not get enough vertical speed before I got hit?  I suppose that makes sense.  As for the turning in air issue I had, I'm pretty sure I was not in the air for that long, so I must've pressed the direction too soon.

Regarding the Powerbombing of the metorids, its RNG dependant, and a very high probability they will detach with 1 powerbomb,  I think you have really bad luck on that part. Locked doors meant locked doors, grey doors that you normally open are unlocked, if they were event based then they remained locked, I think my wording was correct. Glad you had "fun" completing the EPBC!  I'm surprised no one mentioned the secret song by DSO

Sorry about the rage.  I was mainly mad about, as you said it, my bad luck with the powerbombs.  That said, I only had real trouble with one Metroid room (the last one), and I eventually just decided to skip it (after enough struggling to get them off me).

[spoiler=EPB Metroids]I think I figured out the 2-metroid problem I had.  When I was trying to charge my SBA, my simple ice shot hit the Metroid and immediately "unstunned" it.  Is that supposed to happen?[/spoiler]

[spoiler=EPB Tourian]If by secret song, you mean what played when taking the elevator into Tourian, then, yes, I did notice that.  I just didn't think to bring it up.[/spoiler]

[Quietus]

So I guess what was happening to me was that I would have jumps where I did not get enough vertical speed before I got hit?

Not really, no. You always get the correct amount of vertical speed when you jump - it's about how long there is between you jumping and you getting hit. Imagine standing still, then jumping straight up. As you first leave the ground, you have a lot of speed, and this speed decreases as you approach the height of your jump, then you start falling back down. It's during those first few frames after jumping (when your vertical speed is at its peak) that you need to get hit for the height on your damage boost. It there's too long a gap between you leaving the ground and getting hit, you won't gain the height for the damage boost. Instead, you'll do a normal damage boost, and, it you leave it even longer, no damage boost at all. I hope that makes sense. :^_^:

[CaRmAgE]

Not really, no. You always get the correct amount of vertical speed when you jump - it's about how long there is between you jumping and you getting hit. Imagine standing still, then jumping straight up. As you first leave the ground, you have a lot of speed, and this speed decreases as you approach the height of your jump, then you start falling back down. It's during those first few frames after jumping (when your vertical speed is at its peak) that you need to get hit for the height on your damage boost. It there's too long a gap between you leaving the ground and getting hit, you won't gain the height for the damage boost. Instead, you'll do a normal damage boost, and, it you leave it even longer, no damage boost at all. I hope that makes sense. :^_^:

I understand the jumping mechanic.  The problem is that there's a difference between what you're saying and what I actually experienced with the damage boosting mechanic.  I would get hit almost immediately after jumping (within the first 1-3 frames, I guess; it was definitely not after 10 frames), and I would only get the normal damage boost.  I'm not imagining it or making it up.  The fact that I had to wait in the air, but not wait too long was what made the mechanic so frustrating to me.

[spoiler=EPB Path to Maridia]The first time it happened was when I was trying to damage boost to the Energy Tank in Crateria to get to Maridia.  Getting only the normal boost happened so many times between failed boosts, that I initially assumed the room was filled with invisible FU blocks of a damage-boosting variety.  So I left and tried shinesparking (and found those 21s as I mentioned earlier).  Then, I gave up and tried different entrances, until I realized I was supposed to progress that way.[/spoiler]

[Drewseph]

I understand the jumping mechanic.  The problem is that there's a difference between what you're saying and what I actually experienced with the damage boosting mechanic.  I would get hit almost immediately after jumping (within the first 1-3 frames, I guess; it was definitely not after 10 frames), and I would only get the normal damage boost.  I'm not imagining it or making it up.  The fact that I had to wait in the air, but not wait too long was what made the mechanic so frustrating to me.

the solution is that you were not jumping by the time you got hit.  or let go of jump in the air before getting the boost.  since the vertical boost is coded into the damage boost code there no way for it to not work.  Oh unless you were in water without gravity.   I should also add that the vertical boost from the DB is purely artifical.  the game manual moves samus up via a distance table.  so it really has no bearing on your speed when you jump.

[CaRmAgE]

I should also add that the vertical boost from the DB is purely artifical.  the game manual moves samus up via a distance table.  so it really has no bearing on your speed when you jump.

I sort of assumed that was the case.  Thanks for the information.

I decided to give up going back for items.  I found out one of the expansions I missed is in a room that is now flooded, so I can't reach it anymore. :cry:  Oh well.