"Another Metroid 2 Remake" By DoctorM64

[PonchGaming]

http://oi64.tinypic.com/312fq09.jpg

[siddhartha__]

http://oi64.tinypic.com/312fq09.jpg

that's literally the exact same thing that i see and it's proving my point for me. could you try explaining with words what it is that you mean?

[PonchGaming]

Ok maybe it was his mistake, but it's actually a C&D that he got. Cease and Deists. Cease to continue the project. He said that he might release the soundtrack on soundcloud or something though

[personitis]

The most I can offer is quoted from Discord, posted by Ponch himself:

DoctorM64 - Today at 11:09 PM
But, the expected C&D arrived today

testyourmine - Today at 11:09 PM
DDDDD:

DoctorM64 - Today at 11:09 PM
It was official, and addressed to my personal email
So I had to comply to the demands
Unfortunately, there will be no more updates to AM2R

At the very least, we got a game out of it. The run was fun while it lasted and now it's just immortalized as is. Not like you're going to be able to wipe such a thing off the internet, let alone peoples personal hard drives.

[DonnyDonovan]

I hope a lot of people got to play it while it was out there.  It's very, very well done. 

[danidub]

The game is still very easy to find.

[linkmaster647]

good game but OMG I CANT FINISH 100% WITH THOSES [spoiler]HARD SHINESPARK[/spoiler] but still [spoiler]the tower gets me inconfortable (i thought ennemy would attack me by surprise)[/spoiler]

[GoldenTorizo]

It still disgusts me to no end that Nintendo came and made the ones behind AM2R and Pokemon Uranium pull the plug on these projects. It took me a while to actually find a link to AM2R and I still have yet to find Pokemon Uranium.

Damn it, Nintendo!

[Dark-SA-X]

It took me a while to actually find a link to AM2R and I still have yet to find Pokemon Uranium.

Damn it, Nintendo!

Like I mentioned awhile ago, you should have checked with me privately I would have emailed it to you privately.
Anyway my hard mode recording is just about done, kill off the queen, hijack the baby metroid and stroll back to adam with my mission results.

[Quietus]

I still have yet to find Pokemon Uranium.

Is this site of any help?

[PonchGaming]

I'd also like to point out that Nintendo did not dmca Pokemon Uranium, the creators themselves pulled it out of fear iirc.

[Dark-SA-X]

I'd also like to point out that Nintendo did not dmca Pokemon Uranium, the creators themselves pulled it out of fear iirc.

Thats incorrect if you would do abit more homework you would see that game freak and nintendo pulled a double take down/
http://artlawjournal.com/pokemon-uranium-infringement/
Also I think quietus post about posting the link in here for a different game that had already been taken down is not a great idea.
He could have kept it behind the scenes and share the link via through pm, irc pm or email privately.

[Quote58]

Also I think quietus post about posting the link in here for a different game that had already been taken down is not a great idea.
He could have kept it behind the scenes and share the link via through pm, irc pm or email privately.

We're a rom hacking community, linking the site is exactly what people around here would do, but also nintendo is not going to see that we linked it and do anything to us. If that site gets taken down, it will probably be because of a pokemon site linking it.

Anyway that literally doesn't matter because if you'd read what the site said:
"Please, if you can... SEED THE TORRENT AND SHARE THE LOVE! Thank you!"

They clearly want people to get the download, because they believe the game should get in the hands of the players, with or without nintendo's consent.

[Dark-SA-X]

Also I think quietus post about posting the link in here for a different game that had already been taken down is not a great idea.
He could have kept it behind the scenes and share the link via through pm, irc pm or email privately.

We're a rom hacking community, linking the site is exactly what people around here would do, but also nintendo is not going to see that we linked it and do anything to us. If that site gets taken down, it will probably be because of a pokemon site linking it.

Anyway that literally doesn't matter because if you'd read what the site said:
"Please, if you can... SEED THE TORRENT AND SHARE THE LOVE! Thank you!"

They clearly want people to get the download, because they believe the game should get in the hands of the players, with or without nintendo's consent.

Yet Nintendo doesn't and you can see that clear as day, better yet I'll do them and you a special favor after nintendo warned them multiple times.

[Quietus]

I don't see why you're getting your knickers in such a twist. A fan game has been made available. Nintendo doesn't like it. What Nintendo choose to do or not do is none of our business. If the creators of Uranium choose to ignore any takedown (Quietus takes 25% of damage inflicted) requests, that's up to them. Whether we choose to download it or not is up to us. You waving a great legal conspiracy banner around doesn't make any difference to anything, and I have no idea how you think you're going to 'do us a favour' when we are already in possession of the game. :neutral:

[Dark-SA-X]

I don't see why you're getting your knickers in such a twist. A fan game has been made available. Nintendo doesn't like it. What Nintendo choose to do or not do is none of our business. If the creators of Uranium choose to ignore any takedown (Quietus takes 25% of damage inflicted) requests, that's up to them. Whether we choose to download it or not is up to us. You waving a great legal conspiracy banner around doesn't make any difference to anything, and I have no idea how you think you're going to 'do us a favour' when we are already in possession of the game. :neutral:

Either talk about the topic at hand which is am2r or don't come back in here going offtopic that has absolutely nothing to do with am2r/metroid2.

[Quietus]

Either talk about the topic at hand which is am2r or don't come back in here going offtopic that has absolutely nothing to do with am2r/metroid2.

In this AM2R thread, the first post that mentions Nintendo taking it down (thus going off-topic), was from this Dark-SA-X guy.

That's spelled H Y P O C R I S Y. :eyeroll:

[Zero One]

oh god shut the fuck up :V


Dark-SA-X, you don't get to tell other people what to do; you're not a mod. Quietus gave assistance to somebody with a problem. And for god's sake, learn how to use the Report Post button. You flagged the wrong one... twice.


And no, this thread will not discuss moderation actions. Nipping that one in the bud before it gets started.

[Zero Dozer]

I could express my rage at these events, but I think I've vented myself enough on the AM2R forums.

To me, it's clear that Nintendo just declared war on its own fans. Indeed they have the right to defend their IP, but this is optional, and they also do it without any justification, especially because Doc wasn't profiting from the game and the same was true of Pokémon Uranium. I mean, Nintendo has just started a massive witch hunt on fan games involving their franchises.

For a long time Nintendo has mistreated their fans (Actually... Can I use cursing here?). Youtube schadenfreude, fan film takedowns, you name it. It has all come to a head as soon as Nintendo sent the DMCA and C&D to Doc.

Nintendo all but left clear that they want to wage war against their own fans. And if it depends on me, I'll give them that at the best of my reach. Nowadays Nintendo is to me just a videogame industry equivalent of Disney, and just as draconian and hollywoodian as them.

I may be being a dick about this, but this is how I feel about this situation.

[crazyal02]

This is a bit more meandering than I'd like, but here's my thought process...

Nintendo all but left clear that they want to wage war against their own fans.

Yep, because that's a sound business decision.

Indeed they have the right to defend their IP, but this is optional, and they also do it without any justification, especially because Doc wasn't profiting from the game and the same was true of Pokémon Uranium.

The problem is that they don't just have the right to do so, they are essentially forced to. Failure to do so could mean losing their IP entirely.

The lack of profit thing is something I see repeated all the time. And yet, non-commercial use isn't an automatic fulfillment of fair use doctrine. Why?

In truth, it's pretty simple. Imagine putting a great deal of effort into an original game and selling it, only to discover a few weeks later that someone else copied your characters, setting and gameplay and released it for free, causing your sales to drop to almost nothing. But it's OK, because they're not making money!

That scenario is (among others) what copyright law exists to prevent. It seems easy to intuit that this situation is different from AM2R's, but where do you draw the line? At what point is this IP use justified?

As such, the law favors DMCA strikes and C&D's against fanworks. Sad but true, and Nintendo's striking is not unusual.

Come to think of it, a good way to determine what is infringing might be with time, rather than the size of the owning corporation or what have you. If only copyright expired after a short amount of time that balanced public and private interest, like 28 years or something.

TL;DR: The blame shouldn't be placed entirely on the shoulders of Nintendo's legal team, but rather on the system that incentivizes this behavior.

[A Dummy]

The problem is that they don't just have the right to do so, they are essentially forced to. Failure to do so could mean losing their IP entirely.

If it was an issue of Trademark, then yes they would be forced to protect their IP, but this isn't over Trademark, this is a matter of Copyright which is different.
Nintendo did not have to shut down AM2R, they did so of their own violation.

Don't believe me?
https://sirtaptap.com/2016/08/fan-projects-not-threaten-copyright-protections/

[personitis]

I don't believe the point is whether or not Nintendo had to shut down AM2R. Rather they decided to do so in order to prevent any further cases or events of the like spiraling out of control.

A hypothetical situation: AM2R is not taken down, remains free of charge to obtain, and Nintendo does not do anything at all about it. This paves way for other skilled freelance developers/enthusiasts to go off and create their own versions of their favorite series, essentially/possibly placing extreme pressure on the company at hand to develop games of equal or greater quality. The idea of pushing for better quality isn't so bad, but the issue arises when fan projects end up just as well made or better than their first-party equivalent, cutting into profits of the company.

Now take it a step further and let's say Sony goes off this concept which Nintendo has inadvertently built (by not acting on fan games) and decides to make their own Zelda game, still free of charge. Suddenly, another company is using Nintendo's precious assets and the Big N decides to take the matter too court! Court costing money aside, there's now a situation where Sony can point to a fan game and say, "They didn't act on this game, created by a fan. We're not even charging money just like that project." Just like that, things are a bit more on Sony's side. Now, decisions and results are very situational, so I can't say how this situation would play out and end.

Again, it's best for Nintendo to just nip something like AM2R right in the bud to avoid any increasing situation from appearing and thus becoming a possible money and time consuming task to settle.

Now I realize everything I've just said is vastly to do with trademark and not copyright. So on the note of copyright, what sets AM2R far enough away from the original Metroid 2's plot, setting, assets, and concepts for it to be determined an original game? Likewise, how much does it share that it's still considered the original game? This still needs some mediator, still likely a court, to settle the matter to one side or the other.

I'm not a particular fan of the article linked as it's really in-your-face and aggressive, seemingly to the point of being thoughtfully yet quickly written and edited, while the author's thoughts may not have been completely clear or been able to take a neutral view of the situation. So I did what the article wanted me to do and ran off to a do a little research my own so I could wise myself up on the matter of trademark vs copyright. What I found:

A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol, and/or design that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.

"Metroid", the Metroid logo, "Nintendo" name, and Nintendo's logo.

A copyright protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture.

In relation to being made originally by Nintendo: the story of the Metroid series, various musical themes and scores of the Metroid series, and artistic designs of graphics or character design.

Quoted texts sourced from http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-getting-started/trademark-basics/trademark-patent-or-copyright. Additionally, as an echo, I used this: http://smallbusiness.chron.com/differences-between-copyright-trademark-3218.html.

If I'm misunderstanding something, please point it out. I am fairly confident that I'm reading into this properly, however, and understand that Nintendo did what they did so that the situation wouldn't escalate to a near point of no return, whether Doc M had or had not fought against the DMCA and C&D notices and whether or not this is a trademark or a copyright issue.

As a final note to that article that A Dummy linked, knowing and understanding about the Dunning Kruger Effect does not make someone immune to it. If anything, it may cause a person to be more conscious of their thoughts and actions, having them taking a step back, and looking at the situation as a whole. Sure, it sucks we won't be getting more AM2R but at least we got a fantastic fangame out of it. Yet, time moves on.

[crazyal02]

What personitis said is basically what I meant, but I didn't articulate it nearly as well (or accurately). If Nintendo doesn't nip projects like these in the bud, it'll lead to lots of trouble for them later.

[Zero Dozer]

Personitis, sorry, but your answer sounded like a bad excuse. By your logic, ROM hacks and fan games are opening a "dangerous precedent that will turn every gaming franchise into public domain".

What personitis said is basically what I meant, but I didn't articulate it nearly as well (or accurately). If Nintendo doesn't nip projects like these in the bud, it'll lead to lots of trouble for them later.

Not really. SEGA can show you how this is wrong. After all, it's because of ROM hacks and fan games that Sonic the Hedgehog still has quite the strength despite Sonic Team's lack of ability to make decent games. Shit, it's because of this that Taxman and Stealth are able to work on official games for SEGA.

[personitis]

By your logic, ROM hacks and fan games are opening a "dangerous precedent that will turn every gaming franchise into public domain".

That's exactly the logic. By not taking any action, there's the unspoken allowance of such things being able to be argued/debated at all. Maybe it wouldn't be nearly as obvious as my example, but consider events, rulings, and laws, each one its own brick in a wall. Once a brick is placed, other bricks can piggy back off the reason the first was placed. Soon it becomes pretty damn hard to go back and remove the first brick while keeping the rest of the wall intact.

ROM hacking is a major gray area and rather different compared to the AM2R situation.