Super Metroid: Hotlands

[Oi27]

Wait, what the actual fuck???? Infinite bomb jumping (let alone mid-air morphing) is INTENTIONAL???? and it's revealed after winning? Oh my god, that means Nintendo actually designed this game

(you jumped into the modding community before you were familiar with the base game...?)

[Zincoshine]

Well I guess it takes more than just 2 playthroughs of super metroid to discover this advanced stuff. (and don't misquote me please, I know Nintendo made the game  :stern: )

[RT-55J]

I'm curious: what kind of controller are you using to play these hacks?

[Onnyks]

Well MetroidNerd I likewise find it extremely disrespectful that you expect players to go through all manners of glitches instead of using the actual intended mechanics included in the base game that have no good reason for not being used. That last room before the final boss was really uncalled for. You clearly have no idea how enraged I was when I reached that room just before the final boss. I was going to do a KPF-style review but I decided to calm down and try and be constructive. If you don't want to get disrespected, don't disrespect players with troll design choices like this. Now, here's a bit of advice for the future: Next time seek playtesters who aren't also overexperienced with metroid so that you'll get a better proofreading of your hack next time. To see that If any given mechanic is not a mechanic that was needed in the base game or taught by the animals then it's not an intended mechanic.

I don't think you know what disrespectful means. It MIGHT have been disrespectful for Metroidnerd to have made a hack FOR YOU that included skills you wished did not exist, but he is not being at all disrespectful by making the hack with the skill level in mind that he wishes. You were aware of its difficulty when you downloaded it, the author respected the audience it was intended for.

Berating authors and administrators at metroidconstruction as though it were a dev studio who kept producing titles you bought under false pretenses? That's disrespect. Resorting to cursing and sarcasm in a feedback thread? That's disrespect. Using reviews as a platform to rant about your opinion of a game genre and the rating system in general? That's disrespect.

These are hacks: they are amateur by definition, produced by individuals or tiny teams as a hobby, and distributed free due to the community's love of the source material. The strides made in the category of "metroidvania" games since Metroid 1-4 came out are all well and good, but these are not just new entries to that group. Hacks do not have to attempt to stand alone, they stand on the shoulders of the original game, and the decades long experience players have with them.

[MetroidNerd#9001]

Well I guess it takes more than just 2 playthroughs of super metroid to discover this advanced stuff. (and don't misquote me please, I know Nintendo made the game  :stern: )

But this clearly fits into the "Veteran" categorization of this and many other hacks. To be a "Veteran," you should have played the game plenty enough times to have seen these title demos, and you likely use some of these tricks either for sequence breaking or for convenience. As a community, we generally consider it bad practice to require infinite bomb jumping for progression, but tricks like mid-air morphing, wall jumping, and shinesparking (excluding short charges) are usually considered fair game for Veteran hacks.

[Zincoshine]

I've adjusted several of my reviews now. Scores and recommendations remain mostly unchanged though (as stuff like mockball and short charging are actual glitches) except for Hotlands which now has 4/5 (instead of 3/5) and a partial recommendation.

I'm curious: what kind of controller are you using to play these hacks?

xbox 360

massive tl;dr rant

ok calm down, I admitted I was wrong already.

[RT-55J]

okay, yeah, the 360 control has a notoriously bad d-pad for this kind of stuff, so I don't blame you for your difficulty with some of these tricks

[Zincoshine]

hehe... I don't use the d-pad :)

I actually tried buying a SNES controller for the PC 2 years ago but it turned out to be non-functional cheap Chinese crap. If anyone can recommend me a legitimate brand that sells these that would be so awesome :)

[FelixWright]

Yeah the xbox 360 controller is positively awful for 2d games. its DPAD if you can even call it that is just a mushed down joystick. Also for 2d games the placement of the DPAD is in an awful spot in my opinion. Please DON'T tell us you've been using the analog sticks this whole time, that'd explain in particular why you suffer so.........

I dunno if I'd call myself a controller snob, but I personally just haven't been able to adapt to playing with a keyboard. I have invested a fair amount of time, research and money in pursuit of the perfect controller D-PAD. I still have yet to find it, but the options I list below are pretty decent and a SIGNIFICANT improvement over xb360.

If you'd like a cheap alternative with a significantly improved DPAD i recommend looking into the logitech G F310, or the F710 if wireless is a must.

Another good (and possibly the CHEAPEST) option that requires a little more TLC to use is the PS classic controller. (the one from sony's new retro mini consoles they did when nintendo was making nes classic and snes classic) Of the options on this list, this is the one that does not support XInput and currently has no dedicated input wrapper like DS4Windows or BetterJoy to make it good. Also its cable is suuuuuuuuuper short.

Sony's controllers are so far the best in the scene IMO, especially the DS3 and DS4 have great d-pads. I personally prefer the ps classic though because it doesn't carry the unnecessary weight of two analog sticks.

the nintendo switch online snes controller is also pretty dang good all things considered and that's honestly been my current go-to due to its seamless connectivity and excellent portability. Though the dpad is so stiff it hurts my thumb to use the controller after a while. Hopefully that stops happening as I break it in more...

[Zincoshine]

dualshock 3 and 4 also have great d-pads, I personally prefer the ps classic though because it doesn't carry the unnecessary weight of two analog sticks.

Well this is the second big embarrassment for me today. You see, I have been using an xbox controller for metroidvania games for several years. About a month ago, my existing controller died and I discovered there was a six month waiting list for xbox controllers while dualshock controllers were everywhere. I panicked and bought a barely used xbox 360 controller (used only for a few hours) i found online for 40 dollars to replace my old xbox 360 controller. So, why is that so embarrassing? Well, as I said, it was a month ago and I think you of all people know what metroidvanias I was playing at the time....

By the way, sorry for being a jerk with you earlier. I realise now I was in the wrong....

[LetsPlayNintendoITA]

in hacks i always am using the Switch pro + analog. yes. it hurts.

[FelixWright]

Well this is the second big embarrassment for me today. You see, I have been using an xbox controller for metroidvania games for several years. About a month ago, my existing controller died and I discovered there was a six month waiting list for xbox controllers. I panicked and bought a barely used xbox 360 controller (used only for a few hours) i found online for 40 dollars to replace my old xbox 360 controller. So, why is that so embarrassing? Well, as I said, it was a month ago and I think you of all people know what metroidvanias I was playing at the time....

By the way, sorry for being a jerk with you earlier. I realise now I was in the wrong....

Don't worry about it, I think we can all empathize with suffering on xb360 controller.

I still own and use xbox 360 controllers and think they are good, just not for 2d games like this. I think the xbox layout is really good for 3D games though like metroid prime, where the sony layout is better for 2D games. The DPAD is in a better place on sony layout controllers.

[Zincoshine]

just to be clear I might have been suffering more than you think. I wasn't using the d-pad at all, I used the analog stick. lol.

[FelixWright]

Yeah that means a lot and reminds me of my experience with samus returns' stick-centric movement. It absolutely sucks having to wait for the stick to return to a neutral position to be able to use it again. and that doesn't even get into trying to perform specific directional inputs (like WJ) without messing them up.

[Moehr]

By the way, sorry for being a jerk with you earlier. I realise now I was in the wrong....

Welcome aboard! Awesome to see.

While not every hack is made for everyone, it would be cool if you decide to make one some day that is the sort of hack you'd like players to have a available.

Most of us are making the kind of game we enjoy playing, for ourselves and our friends.

A lot of the older hacks focused on skill level cause the tools for making them were not as good. Now there are a bunch of very skilled people making a lot of editors and it's just so much more feasible to produce a wider range of features - visuals, gameplay and music.

If you play MetroidNerd's hacks by release date you'll see they generally have a similar challenge-vibe and you can see the quality increase with his practice. But they all feel like a MetroidNerd production.

Same is true for most of the authors, the games make the kinds of changes the author and possibly some of their friends think are cool, and generally you see a trend towards hacks being better as the author goes (and also as the release date is closer to the present due to improving tools).

At any rate, if you decide to make a hack eventually it will be fun to see how you approach it, since I also prefer doing as few higher skill moves as I can

Hotlands is a really impressive hack that players can play pretty quickly, be challenged by, replay a few times, and met all the requirements of a pretty intense contest while being released in a real short development window, and I think it will end up having some real staying power in the shorter hack category.

[Zincoshine]

yeah hotlands is really impressive, that's why I feel so strongly about it. The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy.

[ocesse]

just to be clear I might have been suffering more than you think. I wasn't using the d-pad at all, I used the analog stick. lol.

You are not alone with the suffering of playing Super Metroid and retro games with an XBOX 360 controller, I have years and more years playing with the XBOX 360 wireless controller and the DPAD is bad, I play with the stick too.
Even in the early days of PS1, I bought a PS1 controller when they included the two sticks, modified it and attached it to the NES controller to play Metroid with a stick. Ahh the old good days :)

[MetroidNerd#9001]

I have decided to release the NSPC files of much of the custom music from Hotlands. This includes:

Another Medium - Toby Fox
CORE Approach - Toby Fox
CORE - Toby Fox
Pink Shell - Shogo Sakai

Feel free to use these songs in your hacks, be sure to credit both me and the original composer if you do.