Super Metroid Subversion

[makazuwr32]

finished hack.

Island was very tricky to find.

[spoiler]now i only have to obtain 1 item for 100% - on the landing site below and left from the ship after station destruction.
any hints? :metroid:[/spoiler]

In general awesome work and awesome hack, especially first boss and last boss fights as well as easy murder of life temple boss.  :portal:  :metroid:

[Love Colored Magic]

  Last item hint: [spoiler] Search beneath the ship.[/spoiler]

[M1CR0H4CK3R]

Can you save the animals and get 100% in the same file? Hints posted in this thread indicate that I may need to [SPOILER] avoid destroying the Space Port [/SPOILER] in order to save the animals. Is that the case? And if so, I can assume that would lock out getting the items in the new area, which bars 100%. Is all that correct? If so, that's a major turn off for me, as one can never have 'true' 100% completion in one single file.

[Zhs2]

No. What happens to the space port is a required event, and it happening before getting the items in it does not lock you out of 100%, as they can still be collected in the endgame phase. You need to do something else planetwise in order to save the animals and it is not mutually exclusive with 100%.

[spoiler]The generator needs to be off to save the animals.[/spoiler]

[drb]

Found a couple of game-breakers after saving the animals and solving their riddle.  Don't know if anything would (or in one case, should) be done about these as they're outside of the main game, but mentioning for player/dev awareness at least.  Spoiler tag as these won't make any sense at all if you're not familiar with the reward for following the hidden green path.

[spoiler]
- First time through the pirate lab, failing to grab Bombs before using a gravity jump to enter the series of 1x1 rooms on the way to Ice Beam results in a softlock - can't go forward without Bombs, can't go back for Bombs without Aqua Suit.

- Cheesing the Metroid Suit with a Crystal Flash clip freaks the game out, touching the suit embeds Samus in the statue, and using the left door drops you out-of-bounds.

- Killshotting Phantoon with any combination of Charge+Ice locks the game up - Phantoon never transitions to its death animation, it just sits there and stares into your soul, forever.  :twisted:
[/spoiler]

[TestRunner]

[spoiler]
- First time through the pirate lab, failing to grab Bombs before using a gravity jump to enter the series of 1x1 rooms on the way to Ice Beam results in a softlock - can't go forward without Bombs, can't go back for Bombs without Aqua Suit.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]It's possible to escape if you skip Bombs still. You need to gravity jump to leave the main hydrology research room (you jump through the door from the room without water). This will take you back out so you can go back and get Bombs.[/spoiler]

[TobiMikami]

If you need an item to complete the game, it's an unskippable item, and in terms of "good game flow" it should either be A. Made to be acquired at some point before it could become a permastuck (even if it's in say,  a boss battle. If you don't have an item and can't kill the boss, you have to die or reset right? Still a permastuck then theoretically.) Or the next best option B. Make the player encounter that item no matter what before reaching a point where it becomes a permastuck. Also alternate routes shouldn't be a requirement under specifc circumstances, they're best left optional that way when a player discovers it, it makes their life easier or rewards them in some way. Minor game play elements can be the difference between a good game and a great game, and a great game, and an absolute legend. Metroid players like to sequence break, I always try to consider that when level designing. I like to make sure that if the player can sequence break, that it doesn't lead them to a permastuck or makes the sequence break redundant somehow. (Example: You skip spore spawn, but the hack forces you to later fight it anyways, to say access some other unskippable room.)

[TestRunner]

If you need an item to complete the game, it's an unskippable item, and in terms of "good game flow" it should either be A. Made to be acquired at some point before it could become a permastuck (even if it's in say,  a boss battle. If you don't have an item and can't kill the boss, you have to die or reset right? Still a permastuck then theoretically.) Or the next best option B. Make the player encounter that item no matter what before reaching a point where it becomes a permastuck. Also alternate routes shouldn't be a requirement under specifc circumstances, they're best left optional that way when a player discovers it, it makes their life easier or rewards them in some way. Minor game play elements can be the difference between a good game and a great game, and a great game, and an absolute legend. Metroid players like to sequence break, I always try to consider that when level designing. I like to make sure that if the player can sequence break, that it doesn't lead them to a permastuck or makes the sequence break redundant somehow. (Example: You skip spore spawn, but the hack forces you to later fight it anyways, to say access some other unskippable room.)

Uhh I'm not sure the context of this or how it applies to the hack. If you're talking about the previous comments, those are talking about a secret challenge mode that expects you to know more advanced tech. The softlock mentioned isn't really a softlock if you know the various techniques. The main game does not have this behavior, and required no special tech.  :^_^:

[TobiMikami]

You are correct, I was going off what he said under the presumption it was like the typical escape route, and not an optional extra mode, and that if he skipped the bombs then he'd be penalized basically by having to backtrack a different route to escape.

Under those circumstances, I totally understand now, and it makes a lot more sense. If you find that multiple players run into the same situation as him, it might be helpful to put that tidbit into a Readme or something, that way you're not constantly answering the same question.

On a completely unrelated note however, you guys did put together a phenomenal game graphics wise and all the way around, but I was especially impressed with the color palettes and level design, very original concepts that were completely unthinkable when I first started hacking SM, and even when I elevated up to free coding in my engine with Game Maker six or seven years ago. Some of the best I've seen in a long time, you guys rock man.

[TestRunner]

Well discovering the challenge exist is part of the process, so putting anything in the readme would spoil the fun in that. And thank you for the compliments, it definitely was a work of passion.

[Anna]

hello everyone i need some help i want the full map of super metroid subversion can i have it please 100% i need it if you can help me with it i will thank you :)

[UDtheAesir]

Gotta say, this is a helluva hack. Highly recommend it to anybody who hasn't played it. First playthrough I beat with 99.1% items and alot of time, LOL. Couldn't get to the energy tank due to the horizontal shutters, was annoying for me. Still a great game, good job!

[amoeba]

Gotta say, this is a helluva hack. Highly recommend it to anybody who hasn't played it. First playthrough I beat with 99.1% items and alot of time, LOL. Couldn't get to the energy tank due to the horizontal shutters, was annoying for me. Still a great game, good job!

That one is a puzzle. A lot of people get stuck on it.

[TestRunner]

Couldn't get to the energy tank due to the horizontal shutters, was annoying for me.

There is a method to get that item without too much difficulty, and doesn't require any advance techniques. It's a bit of a mechanics puzzle.

If you want a hint: [spoiler]You need to think of a way to fall faster.[/spoiler]
If you want the solution: [spoiler]Turn off gravity boots.[/spoiler]

[drb]

hello everyone i need some help i want the full map of super metroid subversion can i have it please 100% i need it if you can help me with it i will thank you :)

Subversion is in my map list.  I think I'm the only one that's tackled it so far?

[makazuwr32]

Couldn't get to the energy tank due to the horizontal shutters, was annoying for me.

There is a method to get that item without too much difficulty, and doesn't require any advance techniques. It's a bit of a mechanics puzzle.

If you want a hint: [spoiler]You need to think of a way to fall faster.[/spoiler]
If you want the solution: [spoiler]Turn off gravity boots.[/spoiler]

Lol i have got it without using recommended method and instead by using different method to fall through faster (generic mechanics of SM when you do not loose speed when falling through crumbles) + pixel perfect falling movement after like 100-120 trials and errors.

[UDtheAesir]

Couldn't get to the energy tank due to the horizontal shutters, was annoying for me.

There is a method to get that item without too much difficulty, and doesn't require any advance techniques. It's a bit of a mechanics puzzle.

If you want a hint: [spoiler]You need to think of a way to fall faster.[/spoiler]
If you want the solution: [spoiler]Turn off gravity boots.[/spoiler]

Lol i have got it without using recommended method and instead by using different method to fall through faster (generic mechanics of SM when you do not loose speed when falling through crumbles) + pixel perfect falling movement after like 100-120 trials and errors.

Oh man, I did think about that but brain fart, LOL. Maybe I'll try to do that next time around!

Also, 100-120 trials and errors? You ought to get an award for sheer persistence!

[phatscott25]

I just finished the hack 100% today, and I have to say that was probably one of, if not the best hacks I've ever played! A really, really good job from all the people who worked on it! It's also really cool to me that SMART was built partially for the purpose of making the hack altogether, because I've messed around with SMART a few times and found it much easier to get into than SMILE almost instantly. Amazing work!

[H A M]

[spoiler]mother brain changes from phase 3's head to phase 2's head when firing ketchup but mother brain is still in phase 3[/spoiler]

[DemICE]

made an account just to give a thumbs up about this hack.

maybe im weird
but i enjoyed this more than the vanilla game
the main reasons that made the game more enjoyable for me is that:
-all of  missiles/super missiles and PBs  using the same ammo pool,  so every rocket pickup was worth it instead of being a useless collectible. i am an explorer first and foremost and then a fighter/puzzle solver, so feeling that the things i put effort into finding are useful is a big deal to me.  (although in hindsight, power missiles begin to slowly pale in comparison to late game charge beam and lets not talk about hyperbeam, so i guess it does make all the ammo you gather feel a bit unused)
-space jump was fixed to not be fucking awful to play with, it almost works like metroid dread's
-while you can get grappling hook before space jump and use it to do a different route than i did,  you can ALSO get space jump before grappling hook like i did,  bypassing the need to use the hook (i HATE hook gameplay) for anything except activating some switches.  with this and the space jump improvement,  my 2 biggest issues with super metroid are removed and i can enjoy the game more

and yeah theres some funny surprises (not gonna spoil) and some new interesting toys to play with but those are more like "cool spice" so i wouldn't list them as the main reason that led to my increased enjoyment compared to SM

that aside,  i also liked the level design and how non-linear it felt. i might play again in the future following a different order of things. i would have normally bitched about how obscure the passage to reach suzi island is but that whole area is optional, so yeah. still finding it and all the benefits you get from it feels great.
edit: i just remember just what an atrocious time i had with the cypher puzzle that needed the munchkins to be led to break the pipes for me. yeah fuck that one.

i also liked some music options, some made me nod along, which no vanilla music track has done for me yet (brinstar tried)

the log book was an interesting idea.  the missions option can help people that get lost easily but i felt that was a little too hand-holdy to me so i stopped checking the missions tab a after a short while.

THANK YOU for not putting too many shinespark puzzles. those are my bane to execute.

i saw some people bitching about crocomire. like what?  you [spoiler]drop in the room and immediately get speeed booster. when you push the croc to the place where it should fall you see a very obvious speed booster icon in the ground bricks. and its still not obvious?[/spoiler]

[H A M]

[spoiler]the deathless challenge can be cheesed by abusing the copy save file function[/spoiler]

[H A M]

also on ares the bottom border of the minimap isn't there (when not in pixel accuracy mode)

[H A M]

How do I skip [spoiler]Aqua Suit[/spoiler]? [spoiler]I killed Kraid but how do I get up to Dark Visor?[/spoiler]

[Messiah Gift]

I played this expecting a fun time and it subverted my expectations. It has some nice exploration in parts but navigation never really flows well. Very few areas feel good to search through, a lot of areas suffer both from their size and being so disconnected. Some of the new upgrades are nice but space jump upgrades just felt like padding and shared ammo pools just make missiles even more useless in comparison. Dark Visor was neat, but used so sparingly it felt like it was only created to flex some new feature.
All of the bosses were just made slightly more annoying, and Phantoon's the only one that really felt like it had a mechanic added to it.

i saw some people bitching about crocomire. like what?  you [spoiler]drop in the room and immediately get speeed booster. when you push the croc to the place where it should fall you see a very obvious speed booster icon in the ground bricks. and its still not obvious?[/spoiler]

You need to go to the left to even see Speed Booster, when there's normally no reason to ever go to the left before beating Crocomire. You need to either do badly enough to get pushed back, push Crocomire to the edge to see the speedbooster blocks that stop you from beating it the normal way, open the log during a boss fight for no reason, or randomly decide to go to the left. Crocomire is generally a pushover so it's easy to assume the arena was made longer to make it more of a challenge, rather than it being any different mechanically.

[DemICE]

You need to go to the left to even see Speed Booster, when there's normally no reason to ever go to the left before beating Crocomire. You need to either do badly enough to get pushed back, push Crocomire to the edge to see the speedbooster blocks that stop you from beating it the normal way, open the log during a boss fight for no reason, or randomly decide to go to the left. Crocomire is generally a pushover so it's easy to assume the arena was made longer to make it more of a challenge, rather than it being any different mechanically.

huh, i guess people have streamlined SM so much  that the notion of checking the a new room when you get to it doesn't occur to them because they know there is normally nothing there
so funnily someone who's only played SM like once or twice wouldn't be so hard-wired to that routine.
so what i get from this is its not the game's issue but rather it being a hack of a game that people have streamlined to the point of becoming inflexible