Proposing a Collab

[Kalt]

So, there's a capable editor for ZM and Fusion now (thanks Biospark!). But momentum hasn't really started yet.

One way to motivate people is by holding contests, like MetConst does regularly. But with an unfamiliar editor, the hacks would have to be very small and simple. Making a full hack takes a lot of time, and some people have jobs, college, etc.

The other way is to hold a collab. Metroid games are perfectly suited for this: they're divided into distinct areas with distinct themes. All you'd need to do is agree on the standard item progression (and maybe some alternate routes), and the general level of difficulty (i.e. "is bomb jumping necessary to progress")

For a first collab, I propose something close to the Zero Mission progression (but with an earlier ledge grab) and a moderate level of difficulty (the main path shouldn't require bomb jumping or hunting for that one tile that looks like all the others)

Anyone interested?

I'll claim Brinstar. My idea is to make it much more compact, give you the ledge grab early, and make paths for experienced players to chain shinesparks so they can traverse it quickly.

[passarbye]

Personally, I think this is a great idea and it should be done a lot more often with different people designing different areas. It's just such a good way to interconnect the community, and many great ideas can be brought to fruition when collabs work like this.

The only real problems I see with this are:
1. MAGE automatically repoints data whenever you change something in the ROM. This is the best feature of MAGE (imo), but if we have multiple people working on multiple ROMs then stitching together the ROMs would be nigh impossible. You'd have to manually copy all the data from the rooms and all the settings (header info, etc.) and hope it doesn't conflict with someone else's stuff. Say I change tileset A's palette, but you did on your ROM too. What then? Because everyone does things a little differently, the data will be repointed in different places and will conflict. SM gets around this because the editors never manually repoint anything AFAIK.
2. You can pass around a .ips patch after each person is done with their area, but this will get tedious and people will have to wait sequentially to finish their work/continue working on it. Not to mention all the issues with polishing specific areas/finalizing details.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see this happen, I just don't see how. I've never collaborated with others while hacking before, so maybe I'm just a n00b, but the technical details seem to point me in the other direction. :pwuh:

I'll take Kraid if this happens tho.  :wink:

[Kalt]

oh. Well, that's a shame.

What if you just stuck with room edits? MAGE has a function to import and export rooms. If you kept the tilesets and spritesets the same, it shouldn't conflict. (you could also agree on pallete changes afterwards, or beforehand)

[biospark]

What if you just stuck with room edits? MAGE has a function to import and export rooms. If you kept the tilesets and spritesets the same, it shouldn't conflict. (you could also agree on pallete changes afterwards, or beforehand)

That should work, I think. You'd need someone to import all of the rooms at the end, connect all the doors, and edit the minimaps.

[Quietus]

I'd also be interested in this. While I certainly don't have the focus and dedication for an entire hack, creating one decent room is certainly OK, and I suspect it would be for most members.

[Kalt]

Of course. It doesn't have to be anything that radical. It's just something to get the ball rolling and encourage people to fiddle around with ZM/Fusion. (plus it's a good testing ground for the MAGE editor)

[Cpt.Glitch]

I would also be willing to lend a hand at something like this. I have some experience with ZM hacking back before biospark started working on MAGE so I think I could be of use. I'd love to see one of the first full Zero Mission hacks be a collaborative effort.

[biospark]

I'm working on an update for MAGE that will have a lot more importing/exporting options, and I might modify the way rooms and tilesets are imported/exported. It should make collaborations easier since you can work with individual files. I don't think I have the skill or interest to participate, but if this does happen I could help with technical issues or assemble the final ROM.

[Vismund Cygnus]

I never done a ZM before.  Not even the original game. But a single room? That's a thing I've done at least once.

[Jordan5]

This sounds like a pretty cool idea, I've always thought that VLDC for SMW was a cool idea, and now it seems like we would have something similar(ish) for ZM. Count me in :grin:

[FelixWright]

Personally, I think this is a great idea and it should be done a lot more often with different people designing different areas. It's just such a good way to interconnect the community, and many great ideas can be brought to fruition when collabs work like this.

The only real problems I see with this are:
1. MAGE automatically repoints data whenever you change something in the ROM. This is the best feature of MAGE (imo), but if we have multiple people working on multiple ROMs then stitching together the ROMs would be nigh impossible. You'd have to manually copy all the data from the rooms and all the settings (header info, etc.) and hope it doesn't conflict with someone else's stuff. Say I change tileset A's palette, but you did on your ROM too. What then? Because everyone does things a little differently, the data will be repointed in different places and will conflict. SM gets around this because the editors never manually repoint anything AFAIK.
2. You can pass around a .ips patch after each person is done with their area, but this will get tedious and people will have to wait sequentially to finish their work/continue working on it. Not to mention all the issues with polishing specific areas/finalizing details.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see this happen, I just don't see how. I've never collaborated with others while hacking before, so maybe I'm just a n00b, but the technical details seem to point me in the other direction. :pwuh:

I'll take Kraid if this happens tho.  :wink:

Ideas:

- What Kalt said about having everyone start with editing rooms, but also sending patches when their work is complete. After everyone's got world patches in, then each person one-at-a-time can edit sprites/graphics/etc for their area and then distribute the patch for someone else to continue, and so on until the world's completed. With this method, the collaborators would be more reliant on the progress of the individual during second half of development, but there wouldn't be a bunch of patch assemblies to make at the end.

- One person edits an area with custom tiles/enemies/etc. They make a patch. Next person in line uses that patch, and adds their content to their area. It's passed on in this fashion over & over again until there's one final patch. This one would cause longer wait times between contributors, but at least then designer can have it all done in one go.

- While mutually agreeing on fizzix and other things, contributors can agree on what tilesets and other stuff is initially added to the game for contributors to work with. Someone makes a patch with all the custom graphics everyone plans to use, and then everyone goes to town with level design and spritework on their own. I personally believe this'd be the best option because even though there's the risk of changing your mind and wanting something else later on, everyone would have a base patch with the same assets to work with. Should prevent conflict between ROMs.

[Jiffy]

If this were to be a thing, I would like to do the stealth section. (That doesn't involve the rest of the ship/Chozodia).

[Cpt.Glitch]

I expect rad puzzles then Jiffy.