SM Redesign: Axeil Edition FINAL

[Beardy]

you can go Ice -> Kraid -> Varia, and skip the forced suitless underwater segment in Red Brinstar.

Don't you mean Ice -> Varia -> Kraid? You only skip the underwater part by going through the Varia room.

It would be neat if something could be set up so that you can skip all the bosses and just do the Chozo Guardians.

Also, I have to know why the Zebes Express elevators in Norfair are blocked with speed blocks.
Shouldn't it be enough to just visit the elevator room or unlock the door?
If you've made it to the room once then you can make it there again any time, and you get Speed Booster too late to unlock these at a convenient time.
The only reason to lock them is to make you run around the map more which is boring and tedious.
Elevators are put in to help you get around faster, but they don't work until you don't need them anymore. Why?
Just imagine if in Castlevania Symphony of the Night if the warp rooms didn't work unless you have wolf/bat/mist form.
That would super annoying and that game world is smaller than this hack's I think.

[Quietus]

It's likely to prevent players from performing massive sequence breaks. I believe Drewseph has been quite open about not really wanting sequence breaking, and the minor changes to item order mentioned above are available because they don't affect much.

[Beardy]

Maybe there is a sequence break, but I'm not seeing it. Also, some of these elevators unlock automatically later, seemingly, but what I'm bothered by is how they don't work the first time you visit them. If you could go from Spore Spawn up to Bomb Torizo quickly, or from Grapple to Speed Booster quickly using the elevators that would make it less of a pain.




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So as to not double post, I'm editing this post to add that I found a new camera glitch.
Seems like morph ball breaks a number of doors. It works on the other side of the tube as well.
You just hold a direction briefly while coming out of the door.

Code Select Expand

http://imgur.com/yzjNgEp

I don't know if the forum marks a thread as having new content if the newest post is edited, but if not, most people will not see this until somebody makes a new post, which would be a shame.

[Quietus]

I believe the forum marks it as having new content, but doesn't move it to the top of the list.

[Zero Dozer]

I guess I found a probable permastuck. This or my memory's severely lacking.



Defeated Spore Spawn, and I can't access the Wall Jump Boots. Did I mention I did the EPB maneuver at the start of this save? Also, was the EPB maneuver meant to turn hints off permanently?

So, Drew... Was this intentional or something glitched and I'll have to start over? Because I can't get back from Brinstar without the Wall Jump Boots, let alone get the Bombs.

[Quietus]

Somebody didn't read the readme. :nope:

[Zero Dozer]

I've actually searched for it for information before asking here, I didn't think the hint option would become permanently disabled.

My main question, however, is why my path to the Wall Jump Boots is blocked, if this was caused by the EPB run, if this is work of some glitch, or if I did forget something.

Unless there's something I didn't read right and I was supposed to immediately search for Tourian's entrance...

[Quietus]

It's part of the challenge. To quote the reamde file:

Early Powerbombs:There is a powerbomb expansion directly behind the first missile pack.
            If you manage to pass through the proper security trigger then you can
            return and collect this expansion.  However, if you are "detected"
            you cannot ever get this powerbomb until you have powerbombs.   
            The gatekeeper will IMMEDIATLEY grant access to Tourian if you collect this expansion!
      The Challenge:
            Bombs and Walljump boots are inaccessible during this challenge.
            Use hard saves at designated stations, since there is a possibility you
            will get permanently stuck.  Use caution when entering morphball passages.
                  
            This Challenge will require advanced techniques
            No Tool Assistance is required. Hint system is disabled.

[Zero Dozer]

Ugh, so that's why. I thought he meant the state I was as of the time of the challenge, but he meant he actually blocked the path for these two.

So, unless there is some unseen skill... I'm permastuck in Brinstar. Way to go for misinterpreting a Read-Me file.

[Quietus]

You're not stuck - it's a challenge. It requires a lot of unusual techniques and skills, and learning them is part of the challenge. I can tell you that there are mechanics behind damage boosting, and you'll need to do a lot of it.

[Zero Dozer]

Yeah, I figured that I would have to use Damage Boosting to climb back into Crateria, I'm just having a seriously hard time figuring what to get hit by and how.

[Aran;Jaeger]

You're not stuck - it's a challenge. It requires a lot of unusual techniques and skills, and learning them is part of the challenge. I can tell you that there are mechanics behind damage boosting, and you'll need to do a lot of it.

Actually, no. Even though yes, one can get to a few places in Crateria and Brinstar to get a few things, there is no complete-able (with credits) EPBC in Axeil 1.52, and that's it. I checked through the hack thoroughly in-game and in SMILE, and am aware about those earth-quake inducing triggers, but there really seems to be no way to progress any further after Green Brinstar. I mean one would assume it is a challenge and try it since Drewseph said so, but neither has it been done on any version as of yet (without cheats), apparently, nor does the currently latest version even allow to enter Tourian (even though one can unlock the final entrance guardian) due to water in the morph-lock tunnel which prevents getting past it. That's at least what a bunch of tests and messing around concluded.

And the fact that he got to Brinstar (assuming he has the early powerbombs already) implies he already used the diagonal upwards damage boost mechanic which doesn't even reach high enough in the Green Brinstar elevator room to reach the top of the walljump-able wall on the right side using the Zeela from the left.

I claim Drewseph didn't go through EPB in version 1.52 to verify it is actually possible. The only variable that can be triggred at different possible times seems to be the Crateria earthquake trigger in the far left shaft room where the tunnel is to be used on the way back up after Sporespawn.

Edit: In the room to the right of the elevator savestation room in Crateria, one can wait for a Geemer off-screen from the right to damage-boost up, but it will not change the general permastuck situation.

[Beardy]

Found a permastuck. You can bonk while shinesparking and if you manually walk left you're stuck behind these blocks.

Code Select Expand

http://imgur.com/a/FeAZp

[Zero Dozer]

You're not stuck - it's a challenge. It requires a lot of unusual techniques and skills, and learning them is part of the challenge. I can tell you that there are mechanics behind damage boosting, and you'll need to do a lot of it.

Actually, no. Even though yes, one can get to a few places in Crateria and Brinstar to get a few things, there is no complete-able (with credits) EPBC in Axeil 1.52, and that's it. I checked through the hack thoroughly in-game and in SMILE, and am aware about those earth-quake inducing triggers, but there really seems to be no way to progress any further after Green Brinstar. I mean one would assume it is a challenge and try it since Drewseph said so, but neither has it been done on any version as of yet (without cheats), apparently, nor does the currently latest version even allow to enter Tourian (even though one can unlock the final entrance guardian) due to water in the morph-lock tunnel which prevents getting past it. That's at least what a bunch of tests and messing around concluded.

And the fact that he got to Brinstar (assuming he has the early powerbombs already) implies he already used the diagonal upwards damage boost mechanic which doesn't even reach high enough in the Green Brinstar elevator room to reach the top of the walljump-able wall on the right side using the Zeela from the left.

I claim Drewseph didn't go through EPB in version 1.52 to verify it is actually possible. The only variable that can be triggred at different possible times seems to be the Crateria earthquake trigger in the far left shaft room where the tunnel is to be used on the way back up after Sporespawn.

Edit: In the room to the right of the elevator savestation room in Crateria, one can wait for a Geemer off-screen from the right to damage-boost up, but it will not change the general permastuck situation.

Well, that's a strong analysis here. It means Drew will have to tweak the entire place. Also explains why can't I get all the way back up with only Damage-Boosting. Also, he claimed that only Bombs and Wall-Jump Boots are not accessible, but he blocked access to the High-Jump Boots as well.

So yeah, it is as you say, I may be permastuck between lower Crateria and Green Brinstar.

I hope such feedback helps here. Drew said on the IRC he did some layout changes for his final version, let's hope he also has worked into making the EPBC fully doable.

[Quietus]

So, reading between the lines here, has the fixing of the other issues now broken the EPB challenge completely? Or is it something with the challenge itself that was changed and broken? Has Drew confirmed anything?

[Zero Dozer]

So, reading between the lines here, has the fixing of the other issues now broken the EPB challenge completely? Or is it something with the challenge itself that was changed and broken? Has Drew confirmed anything?

Actually, my and Aran;Jaeger's guess here is that Drew didn't playtest the EPBC run, resulting in permastucks like the one I'm in. Drew, as far as I know, planned to make a final release for Axeil, including some more changes on the landscape, like the infamous IBJ shaft in Maridia.

[Quietus]

Actually, my and Aran;Jaeger's guess

We're all guessing. At the moment, we've just got an Early Permastuck Break Created. :^_^:

[Drewseph]

Nope everything is still in working order.  you just need to keep going back up the crateria shaft.  all the way to the room before landing site.  if you claim you cannot do this, show me a video (youtube please) showing how it is stuck and I'll fix or tell you what you are doing wrong.

Aran;Jaeger: just want to say you should have more faith in me for testing to make sure things are beatable =P

[Scooterboot9697]

I can confirm what Drew is saying. Although it was in a past update, I made it to Ridley in my playthrough... I have yet to go forward mainly cuz my crude skills have basically got me "stuck" because continuing onward is simply too difficult for me, plus I kinda wanna do another playthrough of it this time with the latest version (have yet to do this because reasons). Maybe I'll git gud along the way.

[Zero Dozer]

Through conversation with Drew, I've found my way around and now I know my way into Norfair on the EPB run.

First: Yeah, I'll have to abuse a lot of Damage-Boosting and get every possible Power Bomb upgrade. Without it, my chances on surviving the Hell Run in Norfair (It demands three bombs on the way into the Ice Beam and a last one on the way back) are zero.

Second: Good thing I forgot to save and now I'm back to where I had saved last on Brinstar, as I left some upgrades behind due to not having enough Power Bombs and I accidentaly created a permastuck on the Hell Run.

Third: So now we have blocks that must be shot instead of exploded... Nice to know. This explains why the road to the Hi-Jump Boots seemed blocked.

[Aran;Jaeger]

Well, I am in Green Brinstar without Super Missiles, and that is a permastuck, apparently. It is either intentional or an obvious thing that all testers and Drewseph missed in regards to the EPBC, and no less.

[Zero Dozer]

Well, I am in Green Brinstar without Super Missiles, and that is a permastuck, apparently. It is either intentional or an obvious thing that all testers and Drewseph missed in regards to the EPBC, and no less.

You'll need to climb back to Crateria where is a Missile pack in a room you'd normally open with the bombs. There'll be a Super Missile pack that wouldn't be there in a normal play.

[Zero Dozer]

Well, seems that I'm officially the fifth fucker to ever finish an Early Power Bomb Challenge run. (And the third playtester as well. Drewseph got a lot of feedback on IRC on my part.)


My last save point, right before hitting Mother Brain.


Not counting the numerous save states I had to do, [spoiler]especially during Ridley's Lair Acid Surf section. Other sections were quite the torture as well, especially doing Maridia without Gravity Suit[/spoiler]. Also had to master Drew's Damage-Boosting mechanics, which in turn amped up my skills on vanilla Super Metroid for some reason. I guess finishing this game may have taken me some 15 hours IGT.

In a section, I was able to do a near sequence-break, accessing an Energy Tank I could not be supposed to, as well as discovering a creative Shinespark chain in the same area due to outside-the-box tactics and granting myself access to an extra Missile tank.


Final stats.

I guess 52% is the maximum one can get on an EPBC run.

With this said, I intend to finish this game on a 100% run, but I'll need to take a rest first. Seriously, EPBC run is completely nerve-wracking. Same goes for the final escape sequence, that must be the same on a normal run, meaning I'll have indeed to run from the acid on Tourian. There were times I actually felt mentally exhausted due to forcing my mind through constantly, but I pulled it off.

[Quietus]

Yay, I knew you weren't stuck. :^_^:

[Zero Dozer]

Drew helped me a bit along the way, actually. There were moments where my mind went spiral.