Designing methods

[THE Purple Helmet]

OK so not really a SMILE question but I have restarted my project several times due to either major advances in my technique of designing or major changes to the design in general. I have a rough layout of what my map will be like that allows room for change. I have notes on certain ideas I want to incorporate such as certain room changes, room designs, flow charts etc.

When you all are creating what order do you do things? What i mean is like map design -> room design -> item placement etc.

I am tired of starting over due to replanning the whole thing! I dont think I will be changing the order items are obtained but I have too much going on in my head for one single hack but I need to at least complete one project in full even if it's nothing special or noteworthy and I'm never going to at this rate!

[Zhs2]

I'll go ahead and move this topic to Off-Topic since it's not an engine question but a more general design question and an interesting topic.

I have a few questions for you, though. Why is it necessary to keep replanning your hack? Are you not happy with what you're making? Is there a more efficient way you could go about scrapping your stuff if you happen not to like it, i.e. don't scrap the hack, just scrap the rooms you don't like and swap in new ones? Are you writing stuff down on paper (or a text document) instead of just launching into a bunch of roommaking and ending up disliking it?

[personitis]

I usually work similar to this. Maps and items then move into room making. Before I finish a map or room, I'll go through several copies before I get what I like though. =\

[Quietus]

In order for me:

Item order, which will dictate how my map will run
General map layout, as in which areas are going in which location
Sort out artwork / tilesets
Finalise map, except small, hidden item rooms
Build a handful of skeletal rooms
Set up all of the linking of doors and item placement
Flesh out the rooms and test thoroughly

I then just repeat the last three steps, and never release anything. :heheh:

[Silver Skree]

I just pull it out of my ass as I go, usually. This is the typical process that builds my hacks:

[spoiler]Open SMILE.
Stare.
Stare.
Stare.
Open a room.
Stare.
Breathe.
Check Email.
Check YouTube.
Procrastinate by watching all subscriptions.
Open the right room.
Stare.
Stare.
Stare.
Stare.
Stare.
Stare.
Stare.
Think, but just a little.
Pick a tile.
Place it.
Stare.
Stare.
Stare.
Change your mind.
Remember that you need to put the door there first.
Get halfway through linking the rooms, then check YouTube and Email again.
Procrastinate for 5 hours.
Finish linking those doors.
Place the first tile.
Be SUPER PRODUCTIVE YEAH and build the first ledge or bit of ground you come out on.
Stare.
Stare.
Quickmet.
Stare.
Go to bed.
Wake up.
Stare.
Stare.
Stare.
Stare.
Decide to do something else with your week.

(Usually by the end of the month when I have that room finished, I'll like it.)[/spoiler]

[Lunaria]

I remade the landing site in ice metal around 20 times from scratch before I was satisfied with it. When making a game you will most likely do a lot of double working until you learn what way to design that works with you. :p

[THE Purple Helmet]

I'll go ahead and move this topic to Off-Topic since it's not an engine question but a more general design question and an interesting topic.

I have a few questions for you, though. Why is it necessary to keep replanning your hack? Are you not happy with what you're making? Is there a more efficient way you could go about scrapping your stuff if you happen not to like it, i.e. don't scrap the hack, just scrap the rooms you don't like and swap in new ones? Are you writing stuff down on paper (or a text document) instead of just launching into a bunch of roommaking and ending up disliking it?

The main reason I keep restarting is because I have an idea for what I want the atmosphere in certain areas to end up looking like but my skill is not yet adequate enough to get the results I want. As I get better at creating rooms, I realize ways to get closer to what I want my hack to look like and when I look at the task of redesigning the parts I have already done, I end up restarting most rooms partly because I'm too lazy to redesign my redesign and partly because I work better from a blank canvas. What I have gotten out of my failed attempts so far is that I do have a pretty well defined idea of what the map will end up looking like in the end so maybe I should just start swapping rooms out for new ones. At least then I will have a WIP instead of a cemetery of abandoned rubbish

Short version is that I have alot of ideas in my head that dont end up looking like what I want and I end up restarting them as I am figuring out the design style I like. It's like learning an instrument. You cant create your masterpiece on your 2nd day playing the piano! Plus I am only working with the original tilesets right now because I have no skill whatsoever for designing new ones. Eris is my inspiration that I can still get the atmosphere I want with what I'm working with though! Now if only someone had a good forest tileset...



Thanks for the input BTW! It helps to have something to compare my own designing structure to and find a more efficient way that works for me! And it's kind of a relief to see that even the best don't necessarily hit the nail on the head with the first swing! Maybe that would be another good topic....the rubbish cemetary? lol

[JAM]

In order for me:

Item order, which will dictate how my map will run
General map layout, as in which areas are going in which location
Sort out artwork / tilesets
Finalise map, except small, hidden item rooms
Build a handful of skeletal rooms
Set up all of the linking of doors and item placement
Flesh out the rooms and test thoroughly

I then just repeat the last three steps, and never release anything. :heheh:

Mine is very close, but I'm start of:
A. Thinking of new items.
B. Read the hex tweak page. If the thing I want to do is already found, it can be easily created (if something in hex tweak page requires a few byte chages, new item that will make described effect (if on) can be easily done, as you have hijack point). If it isn't found, try to do is by myself.
C. Making the new item and testing it.
And then, according to your plan =)

[Vener]

Personally, I imagine at first what will look like the internal of rooms, several days in advance (sometimes even several weeks) , always by taking into account the interaction which they have with next rooms , position that will have every tiles, the relief, the elements used to increase the atmosphere. I imagine then Samus walking with every power up's, one by one, like that I have no unpleasant surprises (platforms too high of access, or not enough, dead end or it's not lucky there to take out, etc.). Then I bound the space occupied in the room by drawing lines with a visible tile on the bottom black, then I begin has to give life has all small squares, and I always arrange so that it have never two tiles of the same type side by side . I calculate in advance approximately the number of bytes used in the level data, and when I am certain in 100 %, I leave a margin from 100 to 500 bytes per rooms (depending of the room size) , with the case or I would have retouch has to make later, then I buckle the level data ...

but , i'm probably crazy  :grin:

[MetroidMst]

Generally I just design rooms in some sort of sequence.

1: Design room.
2: Design next room/s depending on what I think it should be.
3: When I get far enough along I might build the rooms to be more structured to the submap.
4: Polish off submap area with whatever else I think needs to be done. (I only work on one submap at a time.)
5: Start again for the next submap.

Room design goes as follows.

1: Blank everything out.
2: Add doors where I want them to be.
3: Basically just start the design process from there. I don't fill in the general layout or anything, I just design from scratch.

[begrimed]

For larger rooms with open spaces I'll usually use a single tile and draw a 'skeleton' of everything, test that and make sure there isn't too much foreground showing, etc. Then I just add all the pretty details and make improvements from there. I usually set up doors/enemies/items/PLMs last, then make some final adjustments afterward.

Not looking forward to rearranging all of the data to make room for more later on down the road, though.

[FullOfFail]

My method is similar to Grime's. I basically do skeletons, and the map work first. That way I can move and reconnect doors as needed. Then go back and do the room designs. Since I can change plm's at will, I'm saving item placement for last. Not sure if that's the best method, but it's what I do.