Best SNES RPG

[Parabox]

I know, I know. It has been disputed many, many times, but I still would like to hear your opinions.

[Digital_Mantra]

The first SNES RPG I ever played was Secret of Mana. I guess you could say that's my favorite simply due to nostalgic value. However that would be a clouded judgment.

Final Fantasy 3 was great.
Chrono Trigger was great.
Secret of Evermore was pretty cool, excellent soundtrack.
Super Mario RPG was good fun.

It's hard to pick, I mean.. we're talking about an era when Squaresoft was in it's prime.

And yes, this has been disputed many, many times.

[FullOfFail]

FFVI is my favorite RPG, or possibly my favorite game of all time, I'm still self-debating which one FFVI or SM is my top. I love me some CT and Lufia too, excellent games.

[Silver Skree]

I just love FFVI to bits, but holy cow, CT just DOES it for me. I can't even start naming all the things I like about it or else I'll have a Hiroshi post, and we're bound to have one of those in this thread soon anyway  :heheh:

I like SD3 above SoM mainly because SD3 has a more even spread of awesome for it's entire soundtrack, where SoM has a handful of really good tracks. Also, SD3 has more replay value. I really love them both to death, though.

Honorable mention for SMRPG. Excellent game, for sure.


EDIT:
Actually, if we're talking about strictly music, SD3 wins. Yes, all these games have excellent music, but...
[spoiler=Hightension wire]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1IrlE9zi9M[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Few Paths Forbidden]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV0ec134lh4[/spoiler]

[squishy_ichigo]

Super Mario Bros. is the only one on that list that I have played... <_<;

I'm not as big a SNESfag as alot of you kiddies are, so I haven't played as many games for it. :P
I have heard many good things about all of the above games. I should probably check them out huh?

Which one do you recommend me playing first?
(after my Christmas hack and Xenogears, I'll give 'em a go! :D)

Also... no vote yet, since I have no real opinion on the matter.

[Silver Skree]

Which one do you recommend me playing first?

Either CT or FFVI, definitely.

[squishy_ichigo]

14:46:27   Zhs2   red_jenpuren: Brainlord
14:46:31   uNsane   yeah looks like stats pages are gone
14:46:34   red_jenpuren   thats a great game
14:46:35   uNsane   for everyone apparently
14:46:37   hayashi   Dragons and catboys can co-exist quite peacefully, in my opinion
14:46:40   uNsane   at least for myself and zeke
14:46:52   hayashi   Dragons and cambions on the other hand
14:46:57   hayashi   n0mits no
14:47:00   Zhs2   Why did you not put that in your SNES RPG post, red_jenpuren
14:47:02   Zhs2   Why
14:47:09   red_jenpuren   idk :P
14:47:10   hayashi   all because the lady loves Milk Gay
14:47:11   uNsane   ohai squigo
14:47:20   hayashi   uNsane!!
14:47:24   red_jenpuren   I think of it more of a action/adventure then RPG
14:47:24   Zhs2   It's about as much an RPG as Secret of Mana is
14:47:25   uNsane   hi hayashi
14:47:26   hayashi   I'm not squig
14:47:28   hayashi   *squigo
14:47:30   hayashi   squig
14:47:32   Zhs2   Action RPG
14:47:33   hayashi   but hi anyway
14:47:39   hayashi   Fraction RPG
14:47:46   Zhs2   Indeeed

:P Brainlord it is.

[Lunaria]

FFV.

Chrono trigger was epic, but the lack of much replay value hurts it for me. :<

[RealRed]

FFV.

Chrono trigger was epic, but the lack of much replay value hurts it for me. :<

FFV for sure. That game was fucking fun... ' till you got to neo ExDeath, I guess.

[Hiroshi Mishima]

*cracks knuckles and tries to relax before posting*

As a warning, this is going to be a Hiroshi Post (tm), so be aware that it's going to be... long.


Secret of Mana - Secret of Mana (or Seiken Densetsu 2) is the earliest of the RPGs on this list, and therefore will the oldest and least spectacular to people who didn't grow up with the console as I did. Many people are quick to point out it's flaws, how the music quality (not the music itself) is poor, or how the script seems badly written with chunks seemingly missing. There is of course an explanation for all of this and it can be summed up in two words: Blame Nintendo. I realize that's pretty bold and needs clarification, so here we go. Secret of Mana was intended to be for the SNES-CD addon that Nintendo had been having Sony create (and would later become the PS1), until Nintendo cancelled the arrangement unexpectedly. This left Square with an almost finished game that would not have worked on the SNES at that time (I somehow suspect if they'd waited a while longer they could have gotten it running). As a result, the tore out roughly 1/3-1/4 of the game.. most notably the later portion, where we'd likely have learned more about Thanatos, his intentions, and the connection to the Underworld which came out of nowhere on the Mana Fortress.

Secret of Mana was designed for a superior performance medium, and sadly, has slow-downs, glitches, music skipping and overlapping of sound effects. The effect is much the same as taking a PC game and downgrading it to work on a console that is unable to run the product nearly as well... which I understand happened occasionally in the video game industry (look at Doom). However, for me, Secret of Mana was one of the first SNES RPGs that I ever played, and despite it's limitations it is still a game that I love and enjoy today. It's simple gameplay was fun and challenging without being too tedius (although some of the magic leveling could get tiresome after a while). It's soundtrack is still enjoyable to listen to (either the original or remixes of tracks). It was one of the first RPGs I had ever played where the ending left me sad and unfulfilled, because of the losses suffered during the final portion of the game (Pureland to Ending).

The characters weren't particularilly deep, the villians were mostly shallow, and a hampering of Engrish Transrations didn't help. But I could overlook it as this was something of a stable of RPGs back in the day, and the wonderous gameplay more than made up for it. I will never forget the first time I found Flammie and was saddened that it's parents had been killed, or getting to fly around the map on Flammie with that beautiful music, or when I first entered the Pandora Ruins and that disturbingly haunting music played as I battles Zombies and other monsters.

I'd say, most of the flaws inherent in Secret of Mana was caused by a botched job of remaking the game to work on the SNES. I can't blame the game itself for these flaws, because what WAS there was pretty damn enjoyable. However, that said, I really feel Secret of Mana doesn't live up to it's fullest potential and would love to have known how it would have been different if we'd gotten the version of the game intended for the SNES-CD addon.

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Final Fantasy VI - The last Final Fantasy to grace the Super Nintendo, and arguably one of the best in the entire series (at least insofar as I'm concerned). It was the last of the normal 2-D entries into the main series (not counting spin-offs such as Tactics). When it was first announced, many like myself were beside themselves wondering how epic or brilliant it would be. I'll be frank, I do not hold the Post FF-6 titles in very high regard. Whether they were poorly written/translated, no matter how interesting or uninteresting the gameplay may have been, many of them would try to capture what Final Fantasy VI did to varying degrees of success and failure. Although FFV saw the Job-System at its strongest, FFVI took it a step further and did away with it completely. Yes, everyone had a specialty move (such as Steal, Morph or Rage), everyone had the ability to learn the same spells and potentially be a similar character. That, for me, meant I was no longer forced to play as a character I didn't necessarilly like or felt may have been too weak. They all had the ability to become as unique or as uniform as you wanted them to be.

The storyline was one of their strongest and deepest, and while it is true that Ted Woosly isn't the best translator, in the case of FFVI he made it work in much the way he made FFIV work before it. It was filled with deep characters with rich backgrounds and diverse characters. One of the things that got me about FFVI was the shades of grey that it contained. Some characters are riddled with guilt over past actions, others are haunted by memories they wish they could forget (or remember), and no one single character is perfect (not even little Relm). Umaro and Gogo notwithstanding as they were merely hidden characters (and how awesome to get a previous boss on your team who played fairly similar to a top-tier character in FFV). The music was memorable, moving, and always fit the situation. The "bad guys" were complicated and while they certainly did horrible things you couldn't help but like them anyways. I would never outright cheer Kefka on, but that doesn't mean I didn't like him, even when I wanted to rip his heart out for cold-bloodedly murdering both Doma and the town on the Veldt (I think it was Mobliz, having trouble remembering?).

And can't forget the ending can I? I can't think of ANY RPGs before FFVI that had endings clocking in at almost 30 minutes! And that's not just the staff roll, either! That's the ending itself (which included the character's FULL names, which I hadn't seen before that, and only occasionally afterwards if they're not already listed in the manual).

Many of the things I liked about Final Fantasy VI could be considered flaws, I suppose. I particularilly liked the battle system and the way the characters grew in terms of skills and levels. There were many characters, although I personally don't think there were too many and almost everyone had decent introduction times and back history. A few who didn't like Shadow or Mog didn't particularilly bother me. I'd rather have only a couple of characters lacking true refinement, than having MOST of the characters lacking detail or even purpose for being there. *coughChronoCrosscough*

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Chrono Trigger - Chrono Trigger, good gods where to start? I don't think Square had truly had a silent protagonist before this game (even the guy in Secret of Mana talked occasionally), but we never had the feeling that Chrono couldn't talk, just that he didn't. Hell, you could beat the game without him even being there, and how many RPGs can you where the main character wasn't in your party (or anywhere else) when you got to the final battle? Chances are most if not all were after CT was made. Even Serge talked during the second act of Chrono Cross (his mute probably passing to the character you ended up controlling for that duration). And how many RPGs before Chrono Trigger had you ripping back and forth in time messing about with the past, present, and future. The concept behind Chrono Trigger is fascinating and begs the question "If you found out what was going to happen in the future, and had the chance to try and stop it... would you?" It asked you to forget whatever you knew about paradoxes, time travel, and other factors and just INTERFERE. As the 4th incarnation of Doctor Who once said "I always say find something you're good at and stick with it."

The music was breathtaking, and even to this day I love listening to it. I still get a rush when hearing Crono's Theme or the main theme in general, or feeling sad when sorrowful music plays and remembering parts of the story where I cried. The pace of the story/game also felt pretty good, it didn't seem to drag on endlessly. Although I will admit there are parts where it feels a tad bit.. contrived, particularilly in the Dark Ages, it has more to do with the fact that I wish the game had explored some of the options or possibilities that it didn't. It was also the first RPG to my knowledge with over 10 different endings, and the first one to incorporate New Game+, which other games would go on to take advantage of, though never quite as well as CT did. I actually have seen all the endings by my own hand. I enjoyed playing the game more than once, getting my characters stronger. The characters themselves were interesting, likeable, and even endearing. As bad as Ozzie and the others were, I still liked them much the way I liked Emperor Pilaf and his cronies (Mai and Shou/Chou). I felt pity for the Queen of Zeal, who'd lost her soul to Lavos. And then Lavos himself.. gods there's just something about Lavos that I can't stop myself finding awesome. Maybe it's the fact that he looks like a giant Zoomer, or maybe it's way nothing seems to stop him whenever you encounter him... like he's a force of nature, and how many times do people go up against forces of nature and win? To that extent, I guess Lavos reminds me of Godzilla, who I very much love.

In fact, if I had to truly gripe about anything in regards to Chrono Trigger, it was that they didn't cover certain quests adaquately. Schala's fate, which I know was probably left in question on purpose, always nagged me. The explanation given in Chrono Cross was, for me, unsatisfactory and unacceptable. The other was that some of the areas felt inadaquately used. There was much in 65 Million B.C. that served no purpose other than to look nice, and you only get to explore about half of the Dark Ages map before it's destroyed by Lavos. Same can be said of the Kingdom of Zeal, which I particularilly enjoyed. It felt like we didn't spend enough time in certain ages, but that could have just been my thirst for more.

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Super Mario RPG - This is always going to be one of my favourite Mario series games. It was proof to me that Mario and other non-RPG series characters could work just as well in an RPG as they could in their normal genres. It was after playing this that I started wishing I could see a Megaman RPG, a Metroid RPG, and a Castlevania RPG (of course, 2 of those became realities, one of them is still sadly missing). Hell, even Sonic eventually got an RPG which wasn't all that bad, if poorly designed in places; at least the story was decent save the ending. Anyways, yes, SMRPG. A slew of original characters meets a host of new ones, and we see characters beloved for years cast in a new light. Mario is revealed to be a shape-shifter, Toadstool kicks butt with the best of them, and Bowser's softer side starts to show. I always saw a lot of the stuff in this game as a natural evolution of the characters, it's just a pity they never made a direct sequal to it. Admittedly, this was also the beginning of "Behold the Seven X" and "It is always Stars" storylines which would crop up in the future games in Mario's series... but you can't blame this game just because bad trends followed. That's like saying Doom was a horrible game because it spawned imitations (they didn't force people to make bad rip-offs).

The music, like most of Square and Nintendo's games on their own, is very enjoyable here. It was one of the first looks at Mario in 3-D, which I found interesting because I believe around this time Sonic also started in a 3-D-ish game called Sonic 3-D Blast which features an environment at the same 45 degree angle. The gameplay is sound, the characters believable. Although it's an RPG, almost everything seems to fit and not seem out of place. This is also one of the first looks at the world beyond the Mushroom Kingdom.

I'd still say the only truly negative aspect of SMRPG for me, was Yo'ster Isle. If only because I still can't beat the race and have no f-ing clue what "rhythym" I'm supposed to be listening for. It also felt like it broke pace with the rest of the game, considering that as far as minigames of the time went, it felt pretty out of place. At least in Link to the Past you're just shooting arrows the way you normally do. Then there was the "100 Super Jumps" sidequest which, insofar as I'm concerned, is physically impossible. However I know people have done it, it just seemed like the beginning of truly impossible achievements that would start showing up in games in later years. My only other gripe was length, as SMRPG felt too short by RPG standards. However, by Mario game standards of the time, it felt pretty smooth and fairly long given how much time you can spend finding everything or doing sidequests.

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Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals - I'm not gonna lie to you guys/girls, when I first played this I was cautious. Going into it I knew right away that it was going to end a certain way. It also played a bit differently with the Capsule Monsters for instance and the way the dungeons worked. But I honestly found both of them to be interesting additions. The storyline itself was more than I had ever expected. Characters we only saw glimpes of, or heard things about, in the original game suddenly were fleshed out. We knew who they were, what they were like, we saw their hopes and dreams... and well before the end of the game I had cried more than once. In fact, I remember crying during the ending, because what had once been a hasty prologue became a poignant and heartfelt goodbye to two characters I had grown very fond of.

Graphically speaking it was fairly simple, I suppose, but that was part of its charm. The music was beautiful and always seemed to fit the scene or area. The characters were deep, well written, and not as black & white as they might at first seem. There were, however, a couple points in the story/game that always bothered me. Tia and her "vanish without a trace". She didn't go back home, she didn't seem to go anywhere, insofar as I could tell she may as well have thrown herself into the ocean because there was no sign of her anywhere. The Sinistrals themselves, I wish we could have learned more about them. Mind you, some of the questions that get raised in Lufia II were already answered in Lufia 1, but it's still one of those things that can get to you. I sincerely appreciated the nod to, and continuity of, the previous game which would technically be a "sequel" if it hadn't come out first. It certainly was one of the few games I've played that seemed to directly reference the game that came before without retconning it to death. *coughZeroMission&Zeldacough* Only other thing was the Mystery Dungeon, which I could never get to the end of on my cartridge. I was eventually able to on the emulated version of the game, but the final area was always garbled and I have no idea what it was actually down there... which kind of saddened me, because I've always wanted to see/experience that part of the game but the SNES has no save-states, obviously.

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Seiken Densetsu 3 - It may surprise some of you to know that I don't have a whole lot to say about Seiken Densetsu 3 (or Secret of Mana 2). Mainly because a good translation didn't exist back when I first found it, and also because the game isn't nearly as clear-cut or easy to figure out as Secret of Mana, which I'd definitely say works against it as the controls are clunkier and less intuitive. Graphically and musically it is superior in every way. But the thing is, without an OFFICIAL translation, we'll never know what it might have been like on an SNES console. I know that many people who played it think it's one of the best things to happen to the series and maybe they're right, but I don't know because I still haven't gotten through it. I will point out that I wasn't all that thrilled with some of the character designs, and if the translated text is to be believed of what I did see, some of the characters just don't connect with me. But as I said, I haven't played all the "prologues" and seen all the "sides" to the storyline, but something tells me that after a point it all becomes the same regardless of who you play as until the ending.

I personally feel that including both SD2 and SD3 in the same poll was a little awkward. I mean judging from the poll so far, it would seem more people like Secret of Mana (which was something I expected given how more well known the one game is). I personally thought a better entry would have been EarthBound because it would have been a totally different type of RPG and except for SoM and SD3, all the others are different in some way.


This brings me to the question "Best SNES RPG". The answer to that is that they're all among the best RPGs the SNES had to offer. Are they by any means the ONLY good RPGs on the SNES? I would have to say no. As I mentioned previously, EarthBound would have made a good entry on here. But just as interesting would have been one of the Dragon Quest games, one of the Breath of Fire games, Ogre Battle, Front Mission 1, Tales of Phantasia, and Star Ocean 1. All were fairly decent games, each with their own play style, varying storyline, and pros/cons.

So inclosing, I like them all fairly equally. I don't have as much to say about SD3, but I know it was leaps and bounds better than pretty much anything in the Seiken/Mana series to come after it. Note I left out other games I also very much liked, such as Soul Blazer/Illusion of Gaia, Final Fantasy IV and Secret of Evermore. All of which I would consider among the best the SNES had to offer, as well.

...and this ends another long-ass post by Hiroshi. If I were a noob, I'd have made each game a single post. :p

[Masked_Felix]

Super Mario RPG was my gateway into the genre and I still look back on it with the fondest of memories. I'd rent the game from Blockbuster and spend all of two days getting a quarter of the way through the game while munching on Hot Tamales. I must have gotten to the mines around 15 times before I actually bought the thing.

[Quietus]

Your list doesn't include some great titles, but I'll get to those later.  I'll comment on each in turn:

Secret of Mana:
Probably my choice from your list, as I liked nearly all aspects of the game.  Good story, nice characters, some humour - without going over the top, decent control setup, average difficulty ramp, and nice visuals all add up to me choosing this one.

Seiken Densetsu 3:
I just couldn't get into this one, and have never finished it.  It's the successor to Secret of Mana (Seiken Densetsu 2), but I never found this as enthralling, even preferring the original Seiken Densetsu, on the Gameboy, over this one.  Can't comment more, because I never played enough of it.

Final Fantasy VI:
I did like this game, but never managed to finish it.  I always got to the veldt, and stayed forever fighting all of the creatures.  Also, once I had the airship, I recall never getting mcuh farther, as I could explore the world, and fight the Intangir.  (Bloody Meteor)

Chrono Trigger:
I did complete this, but only once, mainly due to its lack of replayability.  The game is great, and I liked nearly all aspects of it, but just never yearned to replay it.

Super Mario RPG:
Never got that far into this, as I found it very slow going, which is strange because I enjoyed all of its sequels, Paper Mario et al.

Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals:
Love this game, especially its inclusion of some very fun / tough puzzles.  Unfortunately, the Ancient Cave sucks my soul, and is the reason I've never finished this game.  My brain just won't allow me to leave the Cave alone.  This game also has some of the best sprite work I've seen in the 16-bit era, particularly the bosses.

Others:

Tales of Phantasia:
Great game, and the first in a long series of Tales games.  I loved the size of this game, as it just never seems to end, and I love the 2D, side-on battles.  Definitely worth a playthrough.

Illusion of Time / Gaia:
Love the story in this game.  It sucks you in, and doesn't let go.  Some of the levels in the game had great puzzley layouts, and collecting all 50 of Gem's jewels was an extra treat.

Star Ocean:
Amazed this isn't on the list, and it has to be seen to be believed.  Definitely one of the best looking SNES games going, and worth a look for this alone.  The active battle system takes some getting used to, but the game is definitely worth percevering with.

Secret of Evermore:
Surprised this wasn't on there as well, since you had the other two.  Evermore has my favourite story of any game, ever.  No game has made me yearn to 'be the guy' more than this.  The idea of exploring an old building, and being transported to another world is fantastic, and I love it for this.  This game's downfall is it's difficulty, which is higher than the other 'Secret of' games, and you'll need to grind at times to stay alive.

I'm sure there are others, but I forget.  For the sake of your poll, I've gone with Mana.  Hope some of this helps. :^_^:

[Parabox]

Evermore was supposed to be the sequel to Mana and people thought that for a while as well, but it's not and I didn't like it enough to put it on the list. Star Ocean I haven't played enough to put on the list.

[Quietus]

Oh, I thought you were asking which we thought were best, not just 'of these'. :^_^:

[Hiroshi Mishima]

*sigh and stops eating again*

Evermore was never intended to be a literal sequel to Secret of Mana, but merely a spiritual successor in terms of gameplay. The storylines and graphics were very different, and in fact the entire game was made by Squaresoft USA. It was a great game and I truly love it to death and wish it'd had a sequel, unfortunately a lot of uninformed fans seems to get royally pissed that this wasn't actually "Secret of Mana 2" and seemed to dislike and/or boycott the game out of spite. Whatever the reason, the game didn't do as well as Square had hoped regardless of what was put into it, and I believe sometime there after Square USA stopped making game (or was closed, I forget).

Seiken Densetsu 3 is under the popular opinion that because everything centered on the number Three, that calling it Secret of Mana 2 wouldn't have made any sense and was one reason it was never brought over here. Personally, I think Square did themselves and the fans a disservice by not releasing it, but oh well. I think fans would have been equally disappointed with SD3 going from Mana as the two games played little alike despite similar appearences. As Quietus said, when I played it I just couldn't get into it very well. The difference in gameplay tended to turn me off, as did the increased difficulty, especially if you pick the wrong party for a first-time/early playthrough. I've played about a third of it since my last post in here and I can genuinely say the game feels really unbalanced compared to Secret of Mana, which felt more balanced in that yes you could own enemies easily if you trained up but also equally hard if you were speeding through it. SD3 really likes to spank you, especially if you lack a good melee character, which feels like it cuts down on some of the freedom you have even though there are 6 characters to choose from. Although the mechanics behind it all mean you could theorectically get a ton of replays with it by getting different parties for different sides of the story, it also means that some of those parties are about as strong as a dry twig.

Tales of Phantasia was an impressive game, and honestly still is for its sheer size. It reminds me of how Paladin's Quest seemed to constantly throw in another chapter when you thought it was over. Or perhaps more accurate would be to compare it to another Enix game which isn't on here called Robotrek. It was a not-very-well known RPG that had your party comprised of 1-3 robots which you built and customized, but unlike a lot of games like this which didn't have a lot of story, Robotrek has TONS of storyline. Even when I thought I'd won it kept going and then did it at least one more time. Actually, this was a trait a lot of Enix games exhibited around that time... I remember how I plugged 100 straight hours into the PSX Dragon Quest 7 just to hit the hidden final area and that was with relatively little grinding as I hadn't gotten my stride with the game yet.

...shit, I'm rambling, cutting this off here.

[PZ-powa]

Chrono trigger, Chrono trigger and Chrono trigger.

[Blarget2]

(hopefully no one shoots me for this) Mother 3.  :awesome:

[Quietus]

SNES, GBA, SNES, GBA, hmm...  There's a difference, and I know it. :O_o:

[Hiroshi Mishima]

(hopefully no one shoots me for this) Mother 2.  :awesome:

Fixed it for you, Quietus. :D

Which reminds me.. kinda still wondering why that wasn't in the topic. >_>;

Actually, feeling bloody stupid that I never mentioned EarthBound before now...