Super Metroid Subversion

[Nicholas Steel]

1) It would be nice if the hack page linked to this topic instead of https://forum.metroidconstruction.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=6e4d924b5bad853db4076c12f5fad55c&/topic,5551 Edit: Thanks.

2) Where do I go next after getting Spazer? Laser, Speed and More Lasers are currently active in my Mission list. Edit: Nevermind, I didn't realize that creature could break those blocks for me. In the original game it does not break 'em when showing you what to do!

So far the hack has been great.

[Nicholas Steel]

Hmm the way this is set up is very annoying. Could you remove the top block or something to eliminate the need to loop around for each re-attempt? Alternatively remove the blocks right after passing through the door so that you have more time to duck on that side of the door...

Basically make it so it's either less tedious to re-attempt or make it easier to succeed.

https://imgur.com/a/yQUQtDw

[yuriks]

[spoiler]You can run and charge a spark before going into the next room, and then just shinespark through the transition. This makes retrying it much more forgiving since there's no risk of the blocks respawning if you miss the duck.[/spoiler]

[H A M]

[spoiler]just pretend that crocomire isn't there try to break speed booster blocks[/spoiler]

[Odd_Justine]

Excellent hack! I can't post a review since I've never made a forum post, so doing that now.

[jedRigoZer]

I am a big fan of this hack. Thank you SO much for making this. This should be a great sequel to Super Metroid. I find the whole game map to be beautiful. However, I want to see it in its full form. I know that the "Metroid Map Station" webpage already posted the full map, but it's "minimalistic". When I mean in full form, I mean a big-sized png/jpg file where you can actually see the rooms just like how you see them in the game. If you've seen VGMaps's full SM map, that's what I'm talking about. Is there a way to see the full SM:S map VGMaps style? Would SMILE show me this lengthy map?

[Ambureon]

I am a big fan of this hack. Thank you SO much for making this. This should be a great sequel to Super Metroid. I find the whole game map to be beautiful. However, I want to see it in its full form. I know that the "Metroid Map Station" webpage already posted the full map, but it's "minimalistic". When I mean in full form, I mean a big-sized png/jpg file where you can actually see the rooms just like how you see them in the game. If you've seen VGMaps's full SM map, that's what I'm talking about. Is there a way to see the full SM:S map VGMaps style? Would SMILE show me this lengthy map?

there doesn't really exist a reliable way to automatically extract a full world map for a hack just yet, the best one can do is extract each room individually and arrange them together. i just so happen to have already done this. the image is approximately 40k by 20k pixels, and weighs about 40 megabytes. you can download it here. (EDIT: clearing space on my dropbox, download no longer available.) it doesn't show items, enemies, doors, or liquids, and some parts may not be accurate to the current version (i made this using 1.1, and only updated a handful of rooms to their 1.2 versions, i might've missed some) but it does display the entire game environment. spoilers, obviously.

[jedRigoZer]

What a coincidence then. I downloaded your map and I like what I see! I thank you for the map you just happen to make for my wish to come true! One point of criticism I may add is the lack of fast travel (Axeil comes to mind). However, I do understand not adding them as forcing the player to traverse gives the world some weight (if you know what I mean).

[MetroidX]

WOW! Thanks!

This game/hack is so freaking good. I've played most of the hacks here and had fun with lots of them but then moved on. Came back and didn't think there would be a new hack that would draw me back in. So i started looking to see which ones I haven't played that had overall good reviews and when I stumbled upon this one, I 5 star reviews got me curious. So i sadi what the heck, let me try. Worst thing is I will stop playing if i dont like it within the first 30 mins or so. My gosh. It just got me right from the start. I played it like there was no tomorrow. The game design was genius. The graphic edits were refreshing. The new music was so 90s SM. I took out my grid paper and started to map out the areas (which I only do when I'm so into a hack) I 100% completed. All items were so rewarding. Especially that last one! I had a few nitpicks here and there but I won't even mention them cause this is the best hack I've ever played. So thanks to the creators. If there was a way I could donate I definitely would.

[kuzinrob]

This hack is amazing! Starting my third play through. The music is very well done. Is there a list of where certain soundtracks were borrowed from or if they're original compositions?

[spoiler]In particular, the music for the crashed GFS Daphne at the end is very unsettling. Original or borrowed? [/spoiler]

[TestRunner]

This hack is amazing! Starting my third play through. The music is very well done. Is there a list of where certain soundtracks were borrowed from or if they're original compositions?

[spoiler]In particular, the music for the crashed GFS Daphne at the end is very unsettling. Original or borrowed? [/spoiler]

There's a full list on the SMART discord. The one track you are asking about is "Secret of Evermore - Dog Maze".

[NikoleThaPuppy]

Heard great things about this hack, can't wait to play it!

[kuzinrob]

This hack is amazing! Starting my third play through. The music is very well done. Is there a list of where certain soundtracks were borrowed from or if they're original compositions?

[spoiler]In particular, the music for the crashed GFS Daphne at the end is very unsettling. Original or borrowed? [/spoiler]

There's a full list on the SMART discord. The one track you are asking about is "Secret of Evermore - Dog Maze".

Thanks! At the risk of sounding lazy... (I do not have a Discord acct) anyone willing to share here?

Edit: found it https://discord.com/channels/713452708341743657/1009572105685307433/1033139896203874354

in any case here's the music list as far as i'm aware:
[spoiler]Space Port
    Space Port: Super Metroid - Ceres Station
    Cargo Ship: Metroid Zero Mission - Kraid
    GFS Daphne: ???
Oceania
    Surface: Metroid Prime 1 - Tallon IV Overworld / Super Metroid - Red Brinstar Remix
    Ocean Shallows: Super Metroid - Maridia West
    Ocean Depths: Metroid Prime 2 - Lower Torvus Bog Remix
    Crashed Cargo: Donkey Kong Land 1 - Water Level
Vulnar Caves
    War Temple: Castlvania Circle of the Moon - The Old Sinking Sanctuary
    Service Sector / Spore Field: Metroid Fusion - AQA Sector Lower
    Cargo Rail: Super Metroid - Upper Norfair
Lomyr Valley
    Pirate Lab: Super Metroid - Wrecked Ship
    Surface: Super Metroid - Crateria Surface
    Jungle: Shantae's Risky Revenge Remix
    Crashed Daphne: Secret of Evermore - Dog Maze
Vulnar Peaks
    Sky Temple / Peaks: Metroid Fusion - ARC Sector
The Depths
    Verdite Mines: Majora's Mask - Stone Tower Temple
    Magma Lake: Metroid Prime 3 - Bryyo
    The Hive: Castlvania 64 - Silent Madness
    Fire Temple: Super Castlevania 4 - Stage 8
    Generator: Majora's Mask - Great Bay Temple
    Vulnar Root: Super Metroid - Lower Norfair
Suzi Island
    Suzi Ruins: Donkey Kong Country 3 - Water Level
    Suzi Reef: The Wind Waker - Dragon Roost Island
    Thunder Labs: Super Metroid - Sleeping Zebes[/spoiler]

[rpmac]

Great hack! Mostly posting here as I can't rate the hack without posting first. Will write my full thoughts there.

[sbelmont85]

There are so many great hacks recently, Ascent, VITALITY, and even older ones too, Hyper, Redesign A.E., etc. but I think Subversion is my favorite... that keeps to the original ethos of Super Metroid and fairly on par with difficulty. 

Well done and truly amazing! Thank you TestRunner and Amoeba of Doom for this awesome hack and all the hard work.  I have thoroughly enjoyed this hack and am working on completing, hopefully all the challenges.

I've competed, normal, hard, save the animals, 100%, forbidden room, and 2nd quest.

For the 2nd Quest I had some suggestions: (don't look at this message if you want to play 2nd Quest without spoilers)
[spoiler]

Possibly gate the 2nd Quest unlock to Hard Mode and the first clue would be the Challenge to "Save the Animals (Hard Mode)"
1.) Only have the save the animals in hard mode state the hidden message and make a save the animals (Hard Mode) the challenge instead of any mode. Saving the animals in easy or normal they don't say anything. Have hidden GD accessible in any mode but the message says additionally "shoot only ... in Hard Mode" and the last secret access path opens only in hard mode?

2.) Item location suggestions (I found that after getting Supers in 2nd Quest left the rest of the game too short of a challenge for what I thought 2nd Quest should be following the challenges thus far in the game and then a little disappointed that I never got or needed Hyper, High-Jump, and Spazer to complete the game. I was hoping that 2nd Quest would require me to complete the entire map to complete the game) .  I think the following would be more challenging, require a complete map traversal yet a balanced adventure as 2nd Quest required me to for most of the game.

For ALL game modes, change the maps as follows: Change the Green Door in the Rocky Crevis room to a Pink Door (you couldn't get there without supers anyway in 1st Quest because of needing speed-boosters) and then in the Pile Anchor room add a complete spazor blocked path  (which in 1st Quest is easily accessible as you would normally already have spazor) and add a game event, a (Grey Door - the left door in the Tram to Suzi Island room) requiring the Golden Torizo in magama lake to be defeated to access Suzi Island.  This would open up Suzi Island without needing supers in 2nd Quest. Change the first GD to Crocomire to a pink door in the chamber of stone room (but encase it with blocks that from the side require supers to break or a block from the top with a spazor to break (allowing access in 2nd quest with spazor). Change the second GD above Crocomire in the jungles heart malodorous recess to a Pink Door.  Add a game event that prevents access to Dragon (Grey Door) in the scorching abyss access room until you've killed both Ridley and Phantoon (this would be normal progression in 1st Quest) but force you to defeat all the bosses to complete the game in 2nd Quest.

In 2ND QUEST MODE ONLY change screw-attack blocks in wrecked ship access in the GFS Daphne Wrecked Air Lock room where the double blue gate was before to hyper blocks. (this would prevent finishing the game without hyper and charge)

Original Location --> Suggested Replacement Location
Grapple             --> Metroid Suit (Instead of Charge)
X-Ray                --> Spazor (Instead of Space Jump) (needed for Suzi Island access)
Speed-Boosters  --> Space Jump (Instead of ????) (I didn't find out what this was) (Spazor Blocked) (needed for Suzi Island traversal)
Metroid Suit       --> Charge (Instead of Supers) (needed for Thunder Laboratory Boss Fight)
Hyper                --> Supers (Instead of ????) (I didn't find out what this was) (opens up entire map)
Charge              --> High Jump  (Instead of Metroid Suit) (GD Locked)
Plasma              --> Hyper (Instead of ????) (I didn't find out what this was) (GD Locked) & (Grey Door Ridley & Phantoon Boss Locked)

And then reduce all the timers in 2nd quest for space port escape and final escape by the same amount from normal to hard but reduced from the hard mode timer countdowns so it's tighter timers then hard mode.  Increase Heat Damage in Vulnar Root so that the HELL RUN requires all non-major upgrades, as many e-tanks as accessible and all ammo packs accessible to perform multiple CFs like at-least 2 to get power-bomb location item, break glass and get to room right of there.

[/spoiler]
This would essentially require an entire all bosses killed and map traversal to complete 2nd Quest.

[sbelmont85]

The other thing I wish this hack had was a built-in seed item randomizer.

https://github.com/SubversionRando/SubversionRando

[RT-55J]

Regarding the 2nd quest:

[spoiler]One of the design goals the authors had in mind when creating it was having as few bosses required as possible. Ridley, Phantoon, Draygon, GT, and Crocomire being skippable is a feature, not a bug. They wanted the difficulty in the 2nd Quest to not be about combat.[/spoiler]

Also, while a built-in randomizer would be cool for any hack, keep in mind the only existing hack with one, Super Duper Metroid, is no-logic and only works because the game barely requires any items to beat (though allegedly it could produce unbeatable seeds). Porting the Subversion rando to run on the SNES natively might be possible, but it would be hard to justify from a coding/maintenance perspective (to say nothing of the seed generation times).

[hmsong]

I recently played the game (v1.2, normal difficulty, 100%), and boy, I enjoyed it.  However, there were some minor flaws (and solutions) that I would like to address:

• X-Ray comes WAY too late in the game.  Right now, the earliest I can get it is after the Grappling Beam, which is very close to the end (not counting Suzi Ruins).  That's way too late.  Please please make it so that we can get X-Ray a lot earlier (ex: soon after getting Super Missile).  We need it early to save the massive frustrations.  Perhaps switch the location of X-Ray with the first possible Space Jump Boost in Vulnar Caves (Unknown Item if you don't have Space Jump), although it should be blocked by a S.Missile blocks instead of Bomb block to prevent access to it before getting the N.Visor.


• When I first played the game up to the Space Station revisit, I completely missed Spazer upgrade, and as a result, I had to fight the Strong Metroids with just charge/wave/ice beam.  And naturally, there just wasn't enough fire power, which was basically death of me.  And I couldn't even go back for the upgrade, because the lasers were disabled (hence locking out the Spazer room), and I couldn't turn it back on.  Maybe you can make a Spazer block near the Life Temple entrance, to make Spazer a necessity?   I'm guessing you specifically made Spazer skippable (probably due to low % challenge), but can you make the laser switch more obvious?  Perhaps closer to the right entrance, so that players can actually see it, or make the room significantly darker to force N.Visor usage?  Luckily, I had a save file before the Gold Torizo battle, so I didn't have to replay things too much.  And speaking of Metroids...


• When I get the Metroids off of me with a bomb, they don't get knocked back very far, and thus they grab onto me almost immediately.  And that's even worse in the Cargo Ship room, where you have to fight 2 of the strong Metroids at the same time as soon as you enter.  Could you make it so that they get knocked away further from bombs?  It's way too unforgiving, and very much frustrating.

Otherwise, it's perfect.  Of course, the things I mentioned are just my opinion -- there may be more popular opinion or something.  Or were these issues addressed?  Also, some requests:

• Could you make Varia Suit negate the Shinespark damage.  I assume it's the heat that's causing the damage, so Varia Suit should be able to negate it (or reduce it, and Metroid Suit should negate the damage).
• Crystal Flash -- could you have it easier conditions?  Instead of 50 HP, make it 99 (or 98, just in case nobody picks up any Energy Tank).  And instead of holding L+R+d+Shot, how about just holding L+R?  Canonically, it's one of the most important Chozo abilities, and we never see it due to its crazy requirements.
• Could you put Etecoons in the animal rescue room?  Not saving them while saving Dachora just seems so... wrong.

[RT-55J]

Regarding the metroids, you can lay three power bombs to kill them if they're giving you too much trouble (this is vanilla behavior btw).

Glad you enjoyed it!

[hmsong]

Regarding the metroids, you can lay three power bombs to kill them if they're giving you too much trouble (this is vanilla behavior btw).

Glad you enjoyed it!

Oh wow, I did not know that.  Thanks for the tip.  Now, I don't need Spazer anymore to beat the Metroids.  Also, I figured out that you may need to skip Spazer for the low % challenge run (which is really only doable in easy mode, probably).  I still wish Spazer room's laser switch is a bit easier to see (perhaps move it to the right, right next to the laser switch) -- I had Wave Beam going in, but I didn't see the switch, so I missed out.

I'd still want Metroids to not be able to grab you back immediately though.  For people who don't know that Metroids can be killed by PBx3 (ie 90+% of players), they're complete nightmare due to them being able to grab you back immediately.  At the hard difficulty, they're probably impossible to shake off, because they're all so fast.

[drb]

Also, I figured out that you may need to skip Spazer for the low % challenge run (which is really only doable in easy mode, probably)

IIRC, the challenges only register if you clear them on normal or higher.  Low% is doable on normal, but Ridley is an absolute nightmare; would be easier if high jump or something similar could be sacrificed for an e-tank but I don't remember if that's possible.  Either way I'm pretty sure that Spazer isn't an option, but none of the beam upgrades do much for damage output anyway - it's all about the Damage Amps.

[hmsong]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but assuming that the creator of Subversion won't update his patch with my requests anytime soon (assuming ever), how would I go about tweaking something minor?  I simply want to switch the locations of X-Ray and Vulnar Caves's Space Jump Boosts, and put a S.Missile block instead of a Bomb block for the SJBoost room.

The only hacking knowledge I have is using HxD though.  I tried using SMART (SMART.1.19.8826.17969), but it won't even let me load up the ROM (.sfc) nor the .ips file.  I don't know what to do.   If I know the addresses and the values, then I can manually change it using HxD, but I don't know either the addresses nor the values.

Btw, the Speed Ball's sprite in Logbook is wrong -- it's supposed to be sideways, but the logbook's sprite is upright.

IIRC, the challenges only register if you clear them on normal or higher.  Low% is doable on normal, but Ridley is an absolute nightmare; would be easier if high jump or something similar could be sacrificed for an e-tank but I don't remember if that's possible.  Either way I'm pretty sure that Spazer isn't an option, but none of the beam upgrades do much for damage output anyway - it's all about the Damage Amps.

Yeah, so I retract my previous request of making Spazer a necessary item (although I think the laser switch should be a bit more obvious, or make the room very dark to encourage the players to use the N.Visor).  Also, High Jump can be sacrificed?  I was certain that you need it to get the Aqua Suit.  I think you can sacrifice Space Jump though, assuming you know how to wall jump and/or bomb jump.  Also, one of the challenges is skipping Varia Suit.  I'm not even sure how that's possible, to be honest.

[drb]

Yeah, so I retract my previous request of making Spazer a necessary item (although I think the laser switch should be a bit more obvious, or make the room very dark to encourage the players to use the N.Visor).

I've always thought that the dark rooms with gates shortly after getting the Night Visor are training you to use it when similar obstacles are encountered.  Spazer is one example but Grapple is a more prominent one.

how would I go about tweaking something minor?  I simply want to switch the locations of X-Ray and Vulnar Caves's Space Jump Boosts, and put a S.Missile block instead of a Bomb block for the SJBoost room.

Without endorsing alteration of someone else's work, in theory you would just need to swap the PLM types for the two items, in SMILE.  I say in theory because I wasn't able to load the PLM layer in any GUI editor back when I was mapping Subversion, but I'm also basically a toddler compared to others on here so I'll leave room for more knowledgeable folks to chime in.

Also, High Jump can be sacrificed?  I was certain that you need it to get the Aqua Suit.  I think you can sacrifice Space Jump though, assuming you know how to wall jump and/or bomb jump.  Also, one of the challenges is skipping Varia Suit.  I'm not even sure how that's possible, to be honest.

High Jump is not required for Aqua Suit with advanced techniques.
[spoiler]
you'll need to do either a spring ball jump or a gravity jump entering the first room of the Aqua Suit gauntlet (Hydrology Security Area Alpha), and there's a hidden bomb passage in the third room (Gamma). 
[/spoiler]

Space Jump is definitely skipable - I've done it, and I've completed Varia Skip as well.  Ridley is still a pain but not as bad as low%, and you have to front-load e-tank and r-tank collection and make good use of Crystal Flash in the heated areas until you get the final suit.

[hmsong]

Without endorsing alteration of someone else's work, in theory you would just need to swap the PLM types for the two items, in SMILE.  I say in theory because I wasn't able to load the PLM layer in any GUI editor back when I was mapping Subversion, but I'm also basically a toddler compared to others on here so I'll leave room for more knowledgeable folks to chime in.

I'm actually having trouble loading up the ROM for the SMART.  I put the patched ROM (.sfc) in the same directory as the application, and I went to CONFIG, then tried to open the ROM, but it can't even see my ROM.  Also, I thought modifying someone's work isn't unethical, as long as you don't spread it to someone else.

Space Jump is definitely skipable - I've done it, and I've completed Varia Skip as well.  Ridley is still a pain but not as bad as low%, and you have to front-load e-tank and r-tank collection and make good use of Crystal Flash in the heated areas until you get the final suit.

You can't use Crystal Flash in Gold Torizo fight, because you won't have access to Power Bomb yet.  The only way for you to damage that thing reliably is through Charge Beam, and you'd be constantly damaged by the heat.  That's gonna be a rough fight.  I was gonna do this challenge in Easy mode, but now that I know that's meaningless, I'm not entirely sure if I wanna even attempt.  Then again, the speedrun is definitely impossible for me, so I'll never actually complete the whole challenge section.

[drb]

I thought modifying someone's work isn't unethical, as long as you don't spread it to someone else.

It's not.  I don't condemn, but I don't endorse either.

You can't use Crystal Flash in Gold Torizo fight, because you won't have access to Power Bomb yet.  The only way for you to damage that thing reliably is through Charge Beam, and you'd be constantly damaged by the heat.  That's gonna be a rough fight.  I was gonna do this challenge in Easy mode, but now that I know that's meaningless,

You have access to a lot of E-tanks, at least 9 IIRC, before GT.  There's also a save point to refill via R-tanks right after.  You can damage GT with supers as well, he'll catch the first one but take damage from the rest until he throws it, and they're much higher DPS than charge shots.  That fight and Ridley are the hardest parts of Varia Skip, but it's still way easier than low%.  You can use easy mode to get an idea of what you're in for, but the removal of cold damage really changes Ridley.