MFOR - Metroid Fusion Open Randomizer

[Arachsus]

i have read and tried to play through the thing and concluded that its impossible/ very insane tech

it MIGHT be possible to wall jump with screw attack and high jump to barely reach the ledge on the top of the arena

as for wave being behind wave and varia in a lava pool

they arent required to beat the seed (if you could obtain the speed booster) you dont need wave in general to beat the game
varia is slightly trickier as it does want you to go through a hot room (aka the hot corridor with charge beam at the end of it) and then break sector 5 that way with the screw attack path and with plasma being in Sector 2 it makes most of the sectors redundant

Checked the hazard run logic check just in case and it only talks about items but not intended routes

Simply put Logic thinks the platforms for box 1 are already there

[Darkbeetlebot]

i have read and tried to play through the thing and concluded that its impossible/ very insane tech

it MIGHT be possible to wall jump with screw attack and high jump to barely reach the ledge on the top of the arena

as for wave being behind wave and varia in a lava pool

they arent required to beat the seed (if you could obtain the speed booster) you dont need wave in general to beat the game
varia is slightly trickier as it does want you to go through a hot room (aka the hot corridor with charge beam at the end of it) and then break sector 5 that way with the screw attack path and with plasma being in Sector 2 it makes most of the sectors redundant

Checked the hazard run logic check just in case and it only talks about items but not intended routes

Simply put Logic thinks the platforms for box 1 are already there

That seems to be a bit of an issue. After some experimentation, I concluded that the thing that triggers BOX 1 is L2 or higher doors being unlocked, but that poses some issues when you can enter his arena and get stuck there before unlocking them. Even more so that it can be in logic. I feel like BOX 1 should also appear if you have screw.

[VirtualNate]

i have read and tried to play through the thing and concluded that its impossible/ very insane tech

it MIGHT be possible to wall jump with screw attack and high jump to barely reach the ledge on the top of the arena

as for wave being behind wave and varia in a lava pool

they arent required to beat the seed (if you could obtain the speed booster) you dont need wave in general to beat the game
varia is slightly trickier as it does want you to go through a hot room (aka the hot corridor with charge beam at the end of it) and then break sector 5 that way with the screw attack path and with plasma being in Sector 2 it makes most of the sectors redundant

Checked the hazard run logic check just in case and it only talks about items but not intended routes

Simply put Logic thinks the platforms for box 1 are already there

That seems to be a bit of an issue. After some experimentation, I concluded that the thing that triggers BOX 1 is L2 or higher doors being unlocked, but that poses some issues when you can enter his arena and get stuck there before unlocking them. Even more so that it can be in logic. I feel like BOX 1 should also appear if you have screw.

I don't have a ton of technical knowledge about the randomizer, but I think I can explain at least some of this.
When balancing the Gravity Suit, it may be possible that Kaz forgot to tell logic that the Gravity Suit on its own no longer stops lava damage (as mentioned, you also need Varia), leading to Varia being locked behind a damage run.
I would like to clarify that for BOX 1 to spawn, L2 doors have to be unlocked and you need some means to damage it (charge beam or missiles), but the latter isn't relevant here since that condition is already met. Also, because the speed booster is under BOX 1, I have come to the conclusion that logic STILL thinks that you can get out of BOX 1 with just the speed booster, which isn't possible. I remember seeing a seed in the 2021 Fusion Rando tournament which had this exact problem. It seems to me that this logic bug that has existed for a long time and was never fixed.
As for the Wave Beam being behind a Wave-locked check, I have no idea on why that happened. I'm leaving the job of explaining that to Kaz (or someone else who knows the logic better than me).

[Arachsus]

i remember a time ago when someone asked about the power bombs being behind a power bomb block
and the explanation given was that power bombs werent neccesary to beat the seed so they were placed in a random spot
so in this case wave beam was randomly placed behind the wave gate but it could easily have been any other random item spot
just unlucky random placement

[ImJCyo]

Is there a discord server for this somewhere? JupiterClimb recently played the randomizer but it had a bunch of new features such as having the security locks being items you can find, and being able to switch upgrades on or off.

In the currently available latest version, enabling power bombs before bombs doesn't allow you use power bombs if you find a power bomb tank before you find power bomb data, which is the exact opposite of the way the same options for missiles work. Is that a bug or am I missing something?

[RT-55J]

if we're thinking of the same video, JupiterClimb played a beta version of MARS, which is a different randomizer than MFOR. MARS is not yet public, but hopefully should be in the not-too-distant future.

[VirtualNate]

Is there a discord server for this somewhere? JupiterClimb recently played the randomizer but it had a bunch of new features such as having the security locks being items you can find, and being able to switch upgrades on or off.

In the currently available latest version, enabling power bombs before bombs doesn't allow you use power bombs if you find a power bomb tank before you find power bomb data, which is the exact opposite of the way the same options for missiles work. Is that a bug or am I missing something?

Some videos on the randomizer I've watched mention a Discord server but it seems to me that nobody bothered to preserve invites.
Regarding the power bombs, you must've been mistaken. The logic setting Enable Power Bombs without Bombs means that if you get the Power Bomb data before getting the Bomb data, you can still use Power Bombs (this is not the case in the vanilla game). It does not mean that Power Bomb tanks will allow you to use Power Bombs. Same goes for Missile upgrades enable Missiles. Enabling that setting means that you can use missiles if you get any of the major missile upgrades, even without having main missile data. But it does not mean that you can use missiles just by getting a Missile Tank. So this is not a bug.

[ImJCyo]

if we're thinking of the same video, JupiterClimb played a beta version of MARS, which is a different randomizer than MFOR. MARS is not yet public, but hopefully should be in the not-too-distant future.

Ahh. That makes sense. That randomizer looks very interesting.

Some videos on the randomizer I've watched mention a Discord server but it seems to me that nobody bothered to preserve invites.
Regarding the power bombs, you must've been mistaken. The logic setting Enable Power Bombs without Bombs means that if you get the Power Bomb data before getting the Bomb data, you can still use Power Bombs (this is not the case in the vanilla game). It does not mean that Power Bomb tanks will allow you to use Power Bombs. Same goes for Missile upgrades enable Missiles. Enabling that setting means that you can use missiles if you get any of the major missile upgrades, even without having main missile data. But it does not mean that you can use missiles just by getting a Missile Tank. So this is not a bug.

That explains it, I was missing the meaning behind that logic and assuming it worked like the option for missiles does, where even without missile data you can still use missiles if you collect a tank or upgrade. Good to know. Thank you.

[nar001]

I'm confused, why call it "Metroid Fusion Open Randomizer" if it's not open source? What's the "open" referring to? Obviously a very good piece of software but the name gives me pause.

[RT-55J]

"Open" refers to the structure of the randomized game, in contrast to the "closed" sequence of the original game.

[dewhi100]

feels pretty redundant IMO, randos ofc will be "open" like that.
Kaz rename your app

[Zeke]

Of course randos will be. But Fusion-related things typically aren't! MFOR was only the second one ever (after Kaz's own earlier Sequence Breaking Fusion). The name -- which I agree isn't great, but mostly because it keeps provoking this question -- kind of assumes you know how intractable this game is. It's aimed at people who would otherwise think "oh, whoop-dee-doo, you swapped some expansions around." Circa 2021, that's everybody.

[SpineShark]

Hi, I've heard some people say that MFOR (and Sequence Breaking Fusion) changes beam damage and/or hitboxes. Is that true? Cause I've never seen anyone mention it in this thread.

[RodBlanc]

I'm having a problem, I cannot use any power bombs collected before collecting bombs and power bombs data,even after checking the box that should allow it.
Also as suggestion, the rando exe should a have a toggle to allow single wall jump and infinite bomb jump.
And a check box to make whole map fully unlocked from start.

[VirtualNate]

I'm having a problem, I cannot use any power bombs collected before collecting bombs and power bombs data,even after checking the box that should allow it.
Also as suggestion, the rando exe should a have a toggle to allow single wall jump and infinite bomb jump.
And a check box to make whole map fully unlocked from start.

Not sure about the power bomb issue (at least make sure the option was checked when you made the seed; check the spoiler log if you aren't sure), but I do know that Screw Attack enables single wall jumps. This is actually vanilla behavior, too. So, if you want single wall jumps, find Screw Attack and hope that you don't find Space Jump (Space Jump disables wall jumps entirely). As for infinite bomb jumps, I don't think that'll happen. That would require a significant change to the code, not to mention the even more complex changes needed to make it a toggle. It also would devalue quite a few major items, including (but not limited to) Hi-Jump, Space Jump, and Ice/Diffusion Missiles.