MFOR - Metroid Fusion Open Randomizer

[Kazuto]

Oops, thought I responded back!

Yeah, the logic forgot to account for Varia being added as a requirement for breaking S5 in some instances, so it expected you to be able to get that speed wall item without it. Good find, jughead!

[Scherezad]

Managed to generate a non-completable seed.

Hi-Jump at S3-0B-06 is required to get out of S4, but the enemy in that area isn't spawned until unlocking L2 doors, which requires Hi-jump (self-gating), or Bombs (which are in S4).

L1 doors cannot be unlocked by then, precluding use of the pump. Because of this (and lacking Gravity Suit), can't use speed booster to escape S4.

Other potential avenues to escape S4 would include Space Jump (locked behind L2 door in S3), Screw Attack (likewise, but also in lava), or Gravity Suit (in S2)


Aside from this, greatly enjoying the sector randomize flag. breathes some fresh air into the experience (even if in my experience they tend to be front-loaded for major items)

[Kazuto]

Ice Beam is at the Main Elevator, which puts both the escape from Sector 4, and the Hi-Jump Boots into logic (because Hi-Jump is Power Bomb + Ice locked). If you're not comfortable with an Ice escape from S4, just get Hi-Jump after getting Power Bombs.

Edit: Actually, double checking the logic in the code, Ice ISN'T enabled for that escape, but that is still possible. But Hi-Jump is still very much obtainable in your current seed - there's no green doors on the way to or from it. You actually hit a completely different logic error which can expect getting out of Sector 4 without the water lowered, which will be fixed in the next update. But yeah, your seed is still beatable.

[Scherezad]

that hi-jump location is both power+ice locked, yes... but the enemy you need to jump on to get to it doesn't exist until L2 doors are unlocked. Despite not being behind a L2 door, it does require L2 doors.

[Kazuto]

Ahh, you're right! Good call.

The seed is still beatable with an Ice escape in Sector 4, it's just not the easiest thing to do. You need to freeze the crab as it's going up, then wall kick off of the block to the left to get the height + distance to reach the crab.

[Scherezad]

Having tested, yep. An ice escape would be possible in theory. just a touch beyond me right now on account of the precision required.

If you'd like to make such an escape logical in future, I'd suggest diff 3 or 4, as well as making sure the player doesn't have Plasma when needing to do it. Plasma makes that particular task astronomically harder if the logical ice is Ice Beam, as you need to thread a needle as to not kill your stepstool.


Not gonna continue the seed, as I know where most of the major items are, which... kinda kills the fun of a seed for me. Am happy to have helped find another potential logic issue though. :D

Across 54 total seeds, generating 1 that can't be completed in logic is pretty nice.

[Kazuto]

Sector Shuffle has actually revealed a number of bugs that have since been fixed, so it's been a good thing to see. Regarding Ice + Plasma though, I can't add logic that expects "Ice + no Plasma" because Plasma could be placed after that point, but still accessible BEFORE that point, you know? Granted it's possible to freeze the crab with Ice Plasma, but it's still a pain to do so. So in that case, it would just check for specifically Ice Missile instead of any type of Ice.

[Scherezad]

That issue does make sense. In that case, it's basically more on the runner to not collect Plasma before they're ready to exit with another tactic. Much more doable once item graphics are in place, but still doable with safety saves right now.

Speaking of-- take safety saves, folks!

That aside, Diffusion would also be usable for this. Fully charge, shoot the wall. Had similar cases to get to the item at S2-04-03 previously, albeit with the floor.

[redbarchetta53]

Just upgraded from 0.10.10! I read the changelog where it says The Hornoads underneath Charge Core-X now spawn in, making the ceiling Speed Booster item easier to obtain. Was this meant to say that the Hornoads won't spawn in to make it easier?

[Kazuto]

Nope, it's correct as it's written. In older versions, the Hornoads were already in the room, but in the current version, they spawn into the room instead of already being there.

[redbarchetta53]

Oh okay I get it now! My bad.

[Scherezad]

Managed to find another uncompletable seed-- this time fully uncompletable, rather than just logically so!

From the item locations, it looks like it expects S5 to be wrecked so one can collect Power Bombs at the top of S5. From there, collect Space Jump from the Yakuza Loop and Varia from beneath Quarantine. However, due to lack of either Plasma or Varia, despite having Gravity Suit, S5 is not wrecked.
There's nowhere to build a speed boost to collect Power Bombs, Plasma is locked behind Varia, Varia is locked behind Power Bombs, and there's no way to access the Fish Tank to unlock L4 doors.

... And the theoretical workaround of getting Screw Attack isn't available, because that's in S2, locked behind Space Jump and Power Bombs.

[MetroidConstruction245454]

Hi. I started a seed yesterday and got a point where, to the best of my knowledge, I can't get to the next item without going through a damaging environment. When I created the seed, the option for that to be enabled was turned off. I looked at the spoiler log after running around checking stuff for ages and it says that the option indeed was set to "false" and I have to get the next item in the Sector 2 data room, but it seemingly requires going through the lava environment in Sector 1 to take the screw attack shortcut to Sector 2. The green door is open to get there from the lava route but the Sector 2 blue door on top is still sealed as I need to get there first to unlock it along with the data room. I ran through the lava to check to make sure and I was able to get to the security lock and the data room fine to pick up the Gravity Suit. It will allow me technically able to finish the run but, again, it's not supposed to require that.

I do not pretend to be an expert on Fusion nor its every nook & cranny. Can someone please check this and tell me if I'm just blind and missing an alternate route or if it's truly just a bug in the logic? I'm not sure exactly what information you need but I will post the spoiler log info pertaining to item order here. If you need something else, please let me know.

  "MFOR Version": "0.11.6",
    "Seed": "6597650998665846573",
    "Settings": {
        "Difficulty": 0,
        "Item pool": "Major items anywhere",
        "Missile upgrades enable Missiles": false,
        "Power Bombs without normal Bombs": false,
        "Allow logical damage runs": false,
        "Separated security levels": true,
        "Sector shuffle": true,
        "Sector layout:": "6 2 1 5 3 4",
        "Hide item graphics": false,
        "E-Tanks": 20,
        "Missile Tanks": 46,
        "Power Bomb Tanks": 32
    },
    "Item order": {
        "Data S0": "Morph Ball",
        "Item S0-0C-09": "Missile Data",
        "Item S1-0D-02": "Ice Missile Data",
        "Item S1-0D-08": "Charge Beam",
        "Item S1-06-03": "Varia Suit",
        "Item S0-13-07": "Hi-Jump Boots",
        "Item S5-05-01": "Speed Booster",
        "Item S1-09-04": "Space Jump",
        "Item S1-05-03": "Bombs",
        "Item S5-0C-07": "Wave Beam",
        "Item S5-0E-08": "Wide Beam",
        "Item S1-11-02": "Diffusion Data",
        "Item S5-04-01": "Power Bomb Data",
        "Item S5-08-07": "Screw Attack",
        "Data S2": "Gravity Suit",
        "Item S3-07-0B": "Plasma Beam",
        "Nettori": "Ice Beam",
        "Item S3-01-02": "Super Missile Data"

[Kazuto]

Scherezad: Yep, you hit a bug. You hit the nail on the head, actually, because that's exactly what's up: logic thinks you can get into the other room at the top of Sector 5 by mistake. Fortunately, that's something that's already fixed for the next update.

MetroidConstruction245454: There's another path into Sector 2 that's open to you. The seed gave you some funny kinda routing, because you need to open yellow doors in Sector 5 in order to flood the Sector, due to having Varia + Speed + Hi Jump + Wave Beam, then get Power Bombs from the top of the sector, then head into 2 from the Reactor Core. This gets you in there without requiring a damage run. Pretty crazy routing you wound up with, actually!

[MetroidConstruction245454]

OK, I see. Thank you for the reply. I ran around for quite a while and just couldn't figure it out. This is the first time I've been stuck on a seed even after looking at the spoiler log. :lol:

Scherezad: Yep, you hit a bug. You hit the nail on the head, actually, because that's exactly what's up: logic thinks you can get into the other room at the top of Sector 5 by mistake. Fortunately, that's something that's already fixed for the next update.

MetroidConstruction245454: There's another path into Sector 2 that's open to you. The seed gave you some funny kinda routing, because you need to open yellow doors in Sector 5 in order to flood the Sector, due to having Varia + Speed + Hi Jump + Wave Beam, then get Power Bombs from the top of the sector, then head into 2 from the Reactor Core. This gets you in there without requiring a damage run. Pretty crazy routing you wound up with, actually!

[Tbone3366]

Hi so i found that in my one rando i had charge beam spawn on core X for 0.11.6, i have the video here of my entire run, i forgot that my headphones and display had audio at the same time so i will keep that in mind but it caused my run to come to an abrupt end and wanted to make sure you knew about Charge being on Core X due to this being my first post will need to leave a second comment for the link to the video

[Tbone3366]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxd7wcb6NV8 the video showing the full run played and checked along with checking X a few more times  at the 43 minute mark is the first attempt

[caauyjdp]

Tbone: did you actually check spoiler log for charge location or just deduced charge had to be on varia core because you checked everywhere?
I glanced through the vid without audio, and you seemed to have left at least 6 spots unchecked
[spoiler=missed locations]
s2-c-4(item up left from nettori)
s5-f-7(mini fridge)
s5-12-4(right from nightmare recharge)
s5-14-7(s5 to s4 spark up item)
s6-5-b(bottom left)
s6-9-5(upper box2 item)
[/spoiler]

[Tbone3366]

Tbone: did you actually check spoiler log for charge location or just deduced charge had to be on varia core because you checked everywhere?
I glanced through the vid without audio, and you seemed to have left at least 6 spots unchecked
[spoiler=missed locations]
s2-c-4(item up left from nettori)
s5-f-7(mini fridge)
s5-12-4(right from nightmare recharge)
s5-14-7(s5 to s4 spark up item)
s6-5-b(bottom left)
s6-9-5(upper box2 item)
[/spoiler]

Let me check those again, i went in for an hour looking at everything after the video ended, i will also look at the spoiler log too

[Tbone3366]

f

Tbone: did you actually check spoiler log for charge location or just deduced charge had to be on varia core because you checked everywhere?
I glanced through the vid without audio, and you seemed to have left at least 6 spots unchecked
[spoiler=missed locations]
s2-c-4(item up left from nettori)
s5-f-7(mini fridge)
s5-12-4(right from nightmare recharge)
s5-14-7(s5 to s4 spark up item)
s6-5-b(bottom left)
s6-9-5(upper box2 item)
[/spoiler]

i got around to it finally and it checked all the locations but forgot about the upper box2 items existence and it was there...... sorry for wasting any time but thank you for the help, got power bombs from core x of course

[MetroidConstruction245454]

EDIT: I noticed it's the same room Scherezad had issues with so I thought I might should ask before wasting a lot more time just in case.

It's me again. Back so soon, I know. So I started this seed and I got to a point where I got stuck and couldn't figure out where to go again. I checked the spoiler log & apparently the next item is in the ARC room to the left of the room that required the ice missile to get up to (S5-04-01,), but the area isn't destroyed yet so I can't get into the room. I have the difficulty at 0 and AFAIK that room is only accessible normally once the sector is ruined and you shinespark into it. I did have damage run turned on this time (first time) and I tried running through the ice area to somehow make it to the yellow door security room but I have failed miserably so far (I can't speed boost to break away the floor while getting hit so I have no idea if it's even possible to reach it). Just curious if someone more knowledgeable can let me know if I need to run through the ice area in some way before I bash my head against the wall trying it more, if it's something else, or what. Thanks in advance. I appreciate it. I'll leave the log as I did last time. I only looked at the names of the items and not where they were aside from SA/SJ/Bombs. Was trying to leave the locations of the rest secret, lol, but I did already get the Space Jump just randomly running around collecting stuff.



{
    "MFOR Version": "0.11.6",
    "Seed": "3164731201219449366",
    "Settings": {
        "Difficulty": 0,
        "Item pool": "Major items anywhere",
        "Missile upgrades enable Missiles": false,
        "Power Bombs without normal Bombs": false,
        "Allow logical damage runs": true,
        "Separated security levels": true,
        "Sector shuffle": true,
        "Sector layout:": "1 3 2 6 5 4",
        "Hide item graphics": true,
        "E-Tanks": 20,
        "Missile Tanks": 46,
        "Power Bomb Tanks": 32
    },
    "Item order": {
        "Data S0": "Morph Ball",
        "Data S2": "Hi-Jump Boots",
        "Item S2-04-03": "Speed Booster",
        "Item S3-06-06": "Missile Data",
        "Item S0-05-08": "Gravity Suit",
        "Item S0-0C-09": "Charge Beam",
        "Item S0-13-07": "Ice Missile Data",
        "Item S5-04-01": "Screw Attack",
        "Item S0-19-06": "Space Jump",
        "Item S1-07-00": "Bombs",
        "Item S6-06-08": "Wave Beam",
        "Item S2-05-08": "Diffusion Data",
        "Item S5-05-01": "Wide Beam",
        "Item S2-10-0E": "Plasma Beam",
        "Data S3": "Varia Suit",
        "Item S5-0C-07": "Ice Beam",
        "Item S4-0F-06": "Super Missile Data",
        "Item S5-08-07": "Power Bomb Data"
    },

[sheck]

EDIT: I noticed it's the same room Scherezad had issues with so I thought I might should ask before wasting a lot more time just in case.

It's me again. Back so soon, I know. So I started this seed and I got to a point where I got stuck and couldn't figure out where to go again. I checked the spoiler log & apparently the next item is in the ARC room to the left of the room that required the ice missile to get up to (S5-04-01,), but the area isn't destroyed yet so I can't get into the room. I have the difficulty at 0 and AFAIK that room is only accessible normally once the sector is ruined and you shinespark into it. I did have damage run turned on this time (first time) and I tried running through the ice area to somehow make it to the yellow door security room but I have failed miserably so far (I can't speed boost to break away the floor while getting hit so I have no idea if it's even possible to reach it). Just curious if someone more knowledgeable can let me know if I need to run through the ice area in some way before I bash my head against the wall trying it more, if it's something else, or what. Thanks in advance. I appreciate it. I'll leave the log as I did last time. I only looked at the names of the items and not where they were aside from SA/SJ/Bombs. Was trying to leave the locations of the rest secret, lol, but I did already get the Space Jump just randomly running around collecting stuff.



{
    "MFOR Version": "0.11.6",
    "Seed": "3164731201219449366",
    "Settings": {
        "Difficulty": 0,
        "Item pool": "Major items anywhere",
        "Missile upgrades enable Missiles": false,
        "Power Bombs without normal Bombs": false,
        "Allow logical damage runs": true,
        "Separated security levels": true,
        "Sector shuffle": true,
        "Sector layout:": "1 3 2 6 5 4",
        "Hide item graphics": true,
        "E-Tanks": 20,
        "Missile Tanks": 46,
        "Power Bomb Tanks": 32
    },
    "Item order": {
        "Data S0": "Morph Ball",
        "Data S2": "Hi-Jump Boots",
        "Item S2-04-03": "Speed Booster",
        "Item S3-06-06": "Missile Data",
        "Item S0-05-08": "Gravity Suit",
        "Item S0-0C-09": "Charge Beam",
        "Item S0-13-07": "Ice Missile Data",
        "Item S5-04-01": "Screw Attack",
        "Item S0-19-06": "Space Jump",
        "Item S1-07-00": "Bombs",
        "Item S6-06-08": "Wave Beam",
        "Item S2-05-08": "Diffusion Data",
        "Item S5-05-01": "Wide Beam",
        "Item S2-10-0E": "Plasma Beam",
        "Data S3": "Varia Suit",
        "Item S5-0C-07": "Ice Beam",
        "Item S4-0F-06": "Super Missile Data",
        "Item S5-08-07": "Power Bomb Data"
    },

Ok, so I generated this seed and started through and it's an odd one. Morph ball at Main data, which gives access to charge beam in the little alcove. Then in Sector 2, open Lvl 1 locks and get High Jump at S2 data room. That gives access to speed booster in the Kago room. Then at the top of Main elevator is Gravity. So this is a top-heavy seed already.
At this point, 3,5, and 6 are open. Can't do anything in 5 without ice/space jump, and we can't open yellow without varia, yet. There's one item in 6 that's open, but I'd rather not go to 6 without bombs/powerbombs/Lvl 2 locks. So let's go to 3. We find missiles under the floor, and then shinesparking through the heated room gets us an energy tank, which is useful for the return trip. We can't open Lvl 2 locks without bombs, so let's go fight Arachnus. Ice missiles are on the way to arachnus along with an energy tank, a power bomb tank, and space jump. Arachnus itself just has a missile tank. Heading over to 5, we get wide beam at the top of 5, but  we can't go farther without Varia. So it's on to 6.
We don't have supers, so we have to shinespark through the barrier. Then we head down and get Wave Beam. We don't have bombs, so we have to shinespark back up (tricky with that cold X hanging around, but not too bad with space jump).
So at this point, we can't do much. We need bombs to unlock Lvl 2 locks, but those are in Sector 1, which is behind Lvl 2. To get around that, we would need Screw Attack, but that's blocked because Sector 5 isn't flooded. We can't flood Sector 5 without Varia, but that's in S3 Data, also behind Lvl 2 locks.
So yeah, I think this is seed is indeed unbeatable. Again, because the logic thinks you can access S5-04-01 before Sector 5 is flooded.

[MetroidConstruction245454]

So yeah, I think this is seed is indeed unbeatable. Again, because the logic thinks you can access S5-04-01 before Sector 5 is flooded.

That's what I suspected because of Scherezad having issues with that room too, but I'm usually not 100% sure on these because I don't remember the entire map like the back of my hand. Thanks for the check, sheck.

[GB-CG]

Can't help notice that the program is 0.11.6 but the changelog and the readme in the zip says 0.11.5. :heheh:

[ItsDreamless]

- Morph Ball off of the top elevator Missile Pack, leading to Sector 1 where Missile Data is behind the Save Room Missile Pack. This requires using Speed Booster to clear the first Atmosphere room, as will the next one.
- Morph Ball off of the top elevator Missile Pack, leading to Sector 1 where Missile Data is instead behind the room with the three Missile Tanks, specifically the one in the top left. Alternatively, if Sector 3 is the other Sector selected, this item could be Screw Attack if the Missile Pack above closest to the door and the first Morph Ball Missile Pack are E-Tanks; in this scenario, you would head into Sector 3 to open Green Gates and head back to Sector 1, breaking the ceiling in the Green Gate room where the Power Bomb Tank is to get Missile Data or another item required for progression.
- Morph Ball off of the top elevator Missile Pack, leading into Sector 2, where Bomb Data is in its usual location. The hidden Missile Pack in the adjacent room, the Missile Pack in the room with the blue caterpillar dude, the Blue Gate Missile Pack or the E-Tank before High Jump X would be Missile Data.
- Morph Ball off of the top elevator Missile Pack, leading into Sector 2, where Bomb Data is in its usual location. However, Ice Missiles or Ice Beam are in place of one of the locations mentioned above, where Missile Data is located in the Ripper room with both Power Bomb Packs.
- Neither at the top elevator Missile Pack, where Sector 3 is required. Speed Boost into the room adjacent to Green Gates for either Missile Data or Morph Ball where the floor Missile Pack or Morph Ball is, or Speed Boost across the heated room into the room with the Missile Pack and hidden E-Tank. If the Missile Pack is High Jump, the hidden E-Tank is within logic with good wall jumps and speed boost. If the Missile Pack is Screw Attack, the Screw Attack tunnel is in logic and could allow one of the aforementioned items to be in the ceiling item instead.
- Neither at the top elevator Missile Pack, where Sector 3 is required. Speed Boost through the heated room into the room with the Missile Pack and hidden E-Tank, grabbing Missile Data or Morph Ball. Missile Data opens the rest of logic normally, but Morph Ball could lead into the room adjacent to the Green Gate room having Bomb Data; this leads into the 1% Run Missile Pack being Missile Data.
- If both Sector 2 and Sector 3 are your first areas: neither at the top elevator Missile Pack. Speed Boost across the heated room into the room with the Missile Pack and hidden E-Tank. The Missile Pack is Space Jump, while the E-Tank is Screw Attack. This leads you to the Screw Attack room off of the Blue Gate room; either one of the items in this room could be Missile Data or Morph Ball, possibly both.

These are all the ideas I have so far, but I'd love to theorize even more evil ideas, especially since I'm currently running a streak of Difficulty 5 randomizers for fun right now. I would absolutely LOVE to see these runs become even more difficult, or perhaps have an extra difficulty that requires the *very* tedious stuff. (Note: This last part may change later as I do more Difficulty 5's, I'm surprisingly not getting super hard stuff.)

(Also, sorry for all the confusion from this post. I'm newer to the randomizer and I might come off as less crazy once I'm like, 50 in.)