[M1] Metroid - Rogue Dawn - Version 1.21

[Fe]

So I've been messing around with a speedrun route and I'm noticing that the last room is kind of an absolute nightmare with low supplies. Any plans for making missiles drop more often in 1.2? Something to make it less likely that bad luck ruins 85% of runs. Would be a huge help for cutting out unnecessary missiles from the route as well.

[altoiddealer]

That's pretty awesome

[Grimlock]

So I've been messing around with a speedrun route and I'm noticing that the last room is kind of an absolute nightmare with low supplies. Any plans for making missiles drop more often in 1.2? Something to make it less likely that bad luck ruins 85% of runs. Would be a huge help for cutting out unnecessary missiles from the route as well.

Missiles can now be recharged at charge stations, also Snarfblam edited the drop tables in RD to allow for better drop results.

That's pretty awesome

Thanks, I refined it a little more:
(center Sprite)

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[vivify93]

Would you consider adding some black for some definition? Currently, all the dark red kind of blends Samus' features together. This is an example mockup I made.

http://i.imgur.com/SUewXIe.png

Even Dawn has some black on her sprite for definition, I noticed.

[epg]

First, let me say:  this is amazing!

I've played all the ROM hacks out there, and have played the original game countless times. Nothing can ever top the original (without which we wouldn't have this!), but this is definitely right up there with it, and easily better than Metroid Master, my previous favorite hack.

I'm disappointed you're toning things down; you can't please everyone! :)

But, seriously, I think people have just forgotten how hard games can be. Nothing in Rogue Dawn is unfair.

The biggest bummer for me is "scrolling lava pit puzzle in the area adjacent to the final area" being reworked. If you mean what I think you mean, I'm sure going to miss it. I thought that was a brilliant use of the game's scrolling limitations.

Next is completing the ship map. The built-in map already makes this too easy. I had my graphing paper ready to go before realizing it was unneeded. Putting the complete ship map up takes away any challenge in finding that boss. And you're also adding an easier route to the boss? Blech :(

Anyway, enough griping. Time for some bug-reports!

First, on the farthest-left jungle shaft, there are parts where you can walk to the left, wrap around, and get stuck on the right side. Reset required.



Second, I died in the final boss room, selected Save, and landed on a corrupt File-selection menu. This corruption persists; if I load the save file when loading the ROM (I'm using a RetroUSB PowerPak), the corruption is there. I'm not sure it affects anything other than that screen though; the game seems playable if I load the file.

[epg]

Oh, I forgot to mention the fantastic music! Great job, Optomon. Is the soundtrack available for download?

Thanks.

[Beardy]

Thanks, I refined it a little more:
(center Sprite)

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Shoulders look too big. Head looks bent forward. Not enough of the head is showing.
Reminds me of space pirate posture.
I guess you want it like that?

[SacredHooves]

Just wanted to point out if anyone wants to learn to speedrun this I have been picking at this for about the last week (between 1.0-1.1) I am more than willing to share what I have/know about my routes. Once 1.2 gets in I am going to go hams bananas on it. Also I am willing to race others to test different things

[piush]

I was wondering when you release 1.2 and I use my save file will I have all the missiles I found. I ask this because you say you are changing level design. I also have to ask a question as a spoiler. [spoiler]I found the secret area in the game and  I sure was surprised. I never played the original. Was this in the original Nintendo game or something you put in. [/spoiler]. Thanks Grimlock.

[AuroraxPhilic]

@SacredHooves What is your fastest time currently? And which category? (i.e any% any%+UpA All Bosses or 100%)

[SacredHooves]

@AuroraxPhilic any% NMG All Bosses 44:11

[AuroraxPhilic]

What does NMG stand for?

[SacredHooves]

lol, No Major Glitches (I.E D.Mantra's Final Boss skip)

[Grimlock]

Would you consider adding some black for some definition? Currently, all the dark red kind of blends Samus' features together.

The sprite is still a work in progress (I still have other frames to do).  I actually did have some black in the sprite at one point but I edited it out when I reworked the general proportions again.  I'll probably experiment some more with it before I call it good.

I'm disappointed you're toning things down; you can't please everyone! :)

But, seriously, I think people have just forgotten how hard games can be. Nothing in Rogue Dawn is unfair.

The biggest bummer for me is "scrolling lava pit puzzle in the area adjacent to the final area" being reworked. If you mean what I think you mean, I'm sure going to miss it. I thought that was a brilliant use of the game's scrolling limitations.

Next is completing the ship map. The built-in map already makes this too easy. I had my graphing paper ready to go before realizing it was unneeded. Putting the complete ship map up takes away any challenge in finding that boss. And you're also adding an easier route to the boss? Blech :(

I'm only editing areas that I personally agree with.  There was an intention for each design aspect of the game.  Most of them worked as planned but a few didn't meet up with my expectations for game play.  I'm only changing them because I weighed the feedback against my intentions to see if it worked as designed.  It's easy to come up with neat ideas that in practice don't net a positive impact on the actual gameplay.  The lava pit scroll puzzle is a neat concept but in actuality it doesn't make for good gameplay.  A better example of how to use this scroll technique can be found in my first Metroid project "Metroid Incursion".  As a route to pick up a missile pack or item it would be ok but in this case the puzzle is part of the main route which in my opinion didn't work out as planned, simply because it caused way too much confusion.  Confusion for a missile pack is ok but not for the main route.  Another example of a design that didn't work out was the bug hive.  It also was part of the main route.  The problem was that it too caused too much confusion as designed.  I didn't remove it but I altered it in a way that made it easier to understand what is going on.  Over all the game is not easier but it is more "fair".  The route to the Science Ship boss isn't really easier, I mean it IS but it still requires some navigating around.  I'm not too concerned about mapping the Science Ship, it was honestly too inconsistent to have it unmapped since all of the other areas were.  I think the game is better off if things are consistent so I did map it.

In all I would have to disagree that I'm toning the game down.  We're actually adding a lot of neat things to the game and in general fine tuning the level design to weed out certain aspects that didn't quite work out.

Thanks, I refined it a little more:
(center Sprite)

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Shoulders look too big. Head looks bent forward. Not enough of the head is showing.
Reminds me of space pirate posture.
I guess you want it like that?

I'm not going to be able to make it look exactly like the Super Metroid version of Samus.  I actually have considerably less pixels and less colors to work with.  The thing about low pixel pixel art is that in the end you can only get as close as you can get.  I'm working with a space of 16 x 32 pixels.  In some places adding one pixel here or there can dramatically affect the look and proportions.  For example if I remove one row of pixels from the face of the helmet then it's going too look too flat, or you won't even be able to tell there's a visor there.  The SM Samus in the image was shrunk down to the size of the M1 sprite.  So basically this is going to look mostly like the SM sprite (as much as I can do with 3 colors + black and 16 x32 for a working space).  Don't get me wrong through I'm glad you posted your impression of it, it does make me look closer at it (which is a positive).  I'm still working on it so it could change some.

I was wondering when you release 1.2 and I use my save file will I have all the missiles I found. I ask this because you say you are changing level design. I also have to ask a question as a spoiler. [spoiler]I found the secret area in the game and  I sure was surprised. I never played the original. Was this in the original Nintendo game or something you put in. [/spoiler]. Thanks Grimlock.

You'll have to apply the new version to a fresh unaltered ROM.  That means you'll have to start over from the beginning.  Regarding the secret Easter eggs those are the creation of myself and Snarfblam (though don't blame him for the insanity you may experience with some of them).

[squishy_ichigo]

I have to wonder if the sprite would look better if you truncated the arm cannon a bit. This way, you have more room to work with with samus' main body, and the proportions would look better. Yes, that means that you don't have that look where samus' arm cannon is very prominently aimed forward, and idk if that's a style decision you want to go with, but I figured I'd suggest it anyways.

[Scout1297]

I think that what most people here forget/don't know, is that the NES samus sprite is basically split into two halves, one from the arm cannon up, the other is the legs.
The newest updated version of the sprite would benefit mainly from lowering the cannon one pixel again, as the lower arm feels a bit short. Even then it might be better to leave the arm where it is for the purpose of smoother, better looking, animation. Try lowering the cannon one pixel to lengthen the arm, and if it looks too long, doesn't animate well, or just doesn't look good in general, just keep it.
Regarding the shoulder, try either making it one pixel smaller on the top, or lowering the whole shoulder one pixel(and perhaps to the right one pixel).

[Beardy]

I attempted to make her shoulders smaller and straighten up her posture.
Maybe the shading can be touched up, but I don't think it looks that bad once you get used to it.

[Scout1297]

@Beardy no offence but you made it quite a bit worse, if you want to get into pixel art, try http://makegames.tumblr.com/post/42648699708/pixel-art-tutorial and look up other tutorials.

Now as to the comment I made before, I tried the techniques I suggested, plus I added some more shading, and I got this:
Original is to the left, my variation to the right.

I am not sure I like the position of the arm relative to the hip. However, I was going for a more erect posture and I think I got that.

Honestly, I am not sure which one I like better, the one grimlock made has a better helmet(and is better overall) from a farther away standpoint yet feels a little too melded with the shoulders from a more closeup view, and the arm feels a little short. However, mine feels like the helmet is too big, and the arm is too close to the legs.

Such is the joys pains of pixel art  :stern:

The problem is moving something even 1 pixel can through a whole lot more off, and then you correct that, throwing more things off and so on and so on.

Snarf needs to invent a "make my sprite" button before he does anything else  :razz:

[Beardy]

I modified my attempt just now because I realized that I wasn't using all of the pixels I had available.
It's not intended to be final, because I haven't tried shading it.

[AuroraxPhilic]

Guys c'mon. Grimlock -- just lower the arm canon, and make her shooter thing less long. That'll stop these unnecessary critiques.

@SacredHooves Does that include and form of OoBs? Like just casually clipping through walls (without anything major)?

[Beardy]

If you change the arm cannon position then you have to change where the projectile comes out and that can change gameplay. So you can't just change it willy-nilly.

[SacredHooves]

I think for the fun of it the Samus NG+ sprites are looking awesome no matter how we use them first and foremost.  I personally would like that to also remove all your upgrades just for fun and make it feel like a real challenge, just in a new suit.

@AuroraxPhilic I direct you to this wonderful fail box of a run I attempted to do today (even though I swore myself to not do another run til 1.2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDIWmnHarV0&feature=youtu.be
The video isn't ready now, but when it is you'll get the gist of it

[Scout1297]

I modified my attempt just now because I realized that I wasn't using all of the pixels I had available.
It's not intended to be final, because I haven't tried shading it.

it looks better, but it still looks ugly. You need to get a sense of what good pixel art looks like. Plus, the proportions of the suit are not good at all. When i first started out I was all like, i'm going to reskin this A Link to the Past chest and then bam, it was critiqued for not having good color choices, not having good shading, and then someone took my overall design and made it better.
Then after a few misteps, I made my first two good peices of pixel art.
A pixel art logo of Majora's Mask(even if someone else did reskin it to be better)
and a sprite of the ocarina of time mini-boss: Big Octo

It was all uphill from there

Even I am still learning, there are many styles of pixel art, find one that works for you, then work from there.

[Beardy]

Scout1297, can you stop? You're saying that what I did is "ugly" and that I don't have a sense of good pixel art. That isn't nice. I saw that page that you linked to a long time ago, I'm not new to this stuff. I think that the proportions of my version are better and yours are not. I think that my attempt lacks some shading and that's a big contributor to why you don't like it. Or maybe you think that it's an acceptable artistic direction (given the options) to have her looking so hunched over. Her head can either be (1) hanging over her chest a pixel (2) straight with her chest (3) hanging back a pixel. I don't like the look of 1 and 2. I didn't like the hunched over looking sprite and didn't like the "hunched over" artistic direction and I tried suggest a different more upright artistic direction and with low resolution there are only so many ways to do it. I don't want the sprite to have a hunched over Big Daddy from BioShock look to it with big shoulders or to have a hunched over Super Metroid gold space pirate ninja look to it. If you look at the original Metroid art, her shoulders aren't supposed to be that big (or that round) and her head isn't sunk into her chest.

[squishy_ichigo]

* squishy_ichigo attempt

[spoiler=samus][/spoiler]
changed the colors a bit (using the nes colors, of course), used super metroid samus as a base, shrunk her a bit, changed her to four colors in gimp, and then edited her a bit to look right.