[SM] Retroid

[Dynastyx]

This hack is amazing. Wasn't sure at first, with the controls being a bit different from what I am used to, but in the end I adjusted quickly and it was a blast to go through. It was a good throwback, items being pretty much were they where in the original.

Kraid was fun and mother brain surprised me  :razz:

[Daltone]

This hack is decent.
It's looks and plays like it should.

26% 0:55:47

A room in kraid with lots of pipe dudes none of them are set to respawn

[RealRed]

1:30, 34%
Was disappointed that screw attack wasn't a flashing regular spinjump without lightning.  :nowai:

This is a good clean hack. Does well to avoid poor design bullshit, which is strange for something Metroid 1 related. It did get pretty 'monster hall'-y, but I guess that's what M1 was.

The level design was glorious yet simple in the early stages (brinstar, kraid), but felt less and less inspired as I delved deeper into hell. You NAILED tourian though. The lava was dope.

4/5 will play again if polished up one more layer

[Digital_Mantra]

Frankly I am all for not using the original Metroid music. That stuff was awful, and having it in MZM was one of the worst things about that remake. Metroid music needs to be subtle. And also to take longer than 30 seconds before it loops.

You need to check your privilege that shit was gold. Educate yourself.
https://youtu.be/F7J5GlE3YLQ?t=48m57s







________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQIr5bEaGKY

[ianfrombristol]

Shouldn't confuse the music with the limitations of the hardware of the day.  Check this out
https://youtu.be/hfJKLC33ST4

[Derakon]

It's not hardware limitations, since Zero Mission had the same problem. Just music with way too much bombast. They're not necessarily bad compositions, they just don't fit the game; made me feel like I was playing a Megaman game with overly-long levels, instead of a Metroid game. There are good tracks on NES Metroid -- the item room, Norfair, and Tourian all do a good job of striking that quiet/creepy/alien vibe that Metroid games should be aiming for IMO. Problem is, you spend a lot more of the game in Brinstar than you do in those places, and the Brinstar music is just bad from a gameplay perspective.

[DonnyDonovan]

I've now spent the last 15 minutes watching Lara's YouTube videos.

[MetroidMst]

I've had to think about this one a while. I generally enjoyed this for the most part, but a few things bugged me, and one thing really gnawed at me. I finally put my finger on it last night. And my goodness did that ruin the whole hack.

[spoiler=Review]So I find I have a lot more issues with this than I initially thought. The palette work was generally good. The transition room between blue/gold Brinstar was pretty great. The fog everywhere was a little weird at first, but it added something visual that wasn't there before. The layout was changed for all the wrong reasons though.

You see, what you've always led people to believe is that this is supposed to be NEStroid, but "without the crap controls" or whatever. This is a complete lie. First, you backfire on the whole "without crap controls" part by removing functions of Super's controls that make them less "crap" for no reason other than to be Drew-lite in your talk of a hack you're way too proud of despite it being nothing like what you claim.

Second major issue is the hack is lazy. Lava missing in the entirety of Ridley? Was it too much effort to set a single FX1 pointer and have it shared across all the hallways? Thankfully it appears you actually fixed this in your update, but the fact such an obvious thing was missing in the first places showcases the amount of effort that actually went into this in the first place.

And the one thing that bugged me the most, is that this isn't NEStroid at all. It shares a similar layout, but this is just a halfhack of NEStroid in the Super engine. NEStroid allows the player to go wherever and do things in whatever order, but this hack tries to force a linear path on the player. It even blocks off major upgrades until certain points, with Screw Attack becoming absolutely useless by the time you can collect it. (Again, the exact thing a halfhack would do.) For a hack that is supposed to be NEStroid in Super's engine, it fails at the most basic thing, being NEStroid first. Half hacks of Super Metroid are generally met with contempt for lack of imagination and being the lowest form of effort. Retroid is the same thing, except it manages to be worse for one reason.

This hack wasn't made because you wanted to make it. You started it for the reason Bloodsonic was a dick earlier on. Other people started this kind of project (lol) but for whatever reason haven't completed it. Since I hang out in IRC every now and then, I am quite aware this hack was made for a dick measuring contest. Other people "failed" to make this thing, so you were going to show them all up by doing it first, and ironically "doing it right." And now you've got your retarded bro blowing smoke up your butt about how great this bad attempt at a half hack is and how you finished "miles ahead" of people who are probably putting actual effort into their projects.

And then there is the controls. The biggest selling point, and the biggest flop. Improved controls by removing features of Super Metroids controls to make them more like the controls you call garbage? Uh. . . What? I think the school of stupid is shocked at how dumb that was. At the very least, I can somewhat understand the removal of of the run feature, but then you barfed up the spinjump by having the controls the opposite of what it should be. I mean, this is just an upfront lie on this part. When people see "not crap NEStroid controls" for a Super Metroid hack "remaking" NEStroid, they don't expect the controls to revamped to try to be the NEStroid controls. Even I'm too fat to work out the mental gymnastics required to make that statement.

As a hack, I'd give it a 2/5 orbs. It has some interesting bits, provides some nice visuals, and the added bosses were interesting and well done. I especially enjoyed Ice Beam being in the one location no one collects it from. But it really isn't anything more than a fancy looking half hack in a new engine. It's playable, but ultimately fails in delivering NEStroid in Super, and isn't likely going to offer anything beyond the initial playthrough, and much like a half hack of Super, those who want NEStroid will probably be more frustrated by it.

So to sum up, this is a lazy half hack that Project went to the Drew school of marketing for, and was only made because in a bygone era MetConst was mostly a bunch of self-centered elitests and their own cliques. It's clear Bloodsonic is still trying to live in that era, but thankfully the community at large has moved on from that kind of attitude. This is a collaborative community where people respect each other's work. I'll be looking forward to one of the people who are working on NEStroid in Super, and who hopefully respect the original work in the process.[/spoiler]

TL/DR - This isn't the NEStroid in Super you were hoping for. Project/Bloodsonic still living in the past trying to be elitest about a pile of average-at-best. Nothing more than a half hack of NEStroid that got the Drewseph Axiel Edition marketing treatment. NEStroid still has better controls than this.

[squishy_ichigo]

[spoiler=ShyGuy? More like... MadGuy, HAHAHAHAHA AMIRITE!? amidoinitrite?]I want to preface this by saying I pretty much agree with everything you said MST.  Project can be a massive faggot, and he has gone out of his way to piss certain people in this community off in the past, and if you want to get mad about his 'halfhack' because of that, go for it.

He never really 'finished' this hack, and he told me he barely even tested it. I don't know why he officially released it, probably because he didn't want to think about it anymore. He wasn't even gonna fix any of the problems after it released, so I'm surprised he did even that. He doesn't much care for this community, as you could probably guess, and talks shit about it on a regular basis. He's an asshole, and he's lazy. You got all of that stuff right.

But as far as this community is concerned, and really, while am at it, you specifically MST, I don't know what you mean 'bygone era MetConst was mostly a bunch of self-centered elitists and their own cliques', you could have fooled me with that one.... As far as I can tell, its still very much alive and kicking, just take a look at zeph's profile and see what his most recent posts have been, and the lack of literally anyone caring about it, but people want to get butthurt of the silliest things when its newfags, give me a break.

Don't get me wrong, not everyone acts like that, but its annoying when people act like things are a certain way, when they aren't, and its one of the reasons I don't spend as much time around Metconst related things as I used to.[/spoiler]

[personitis]

For anything other than the original Nestroid to exist in it's place would be a crime, despite the original game's shortcomings.

[Steel Sparkle]

@MetroidMst
I 100% agree. It's not a terrible hack in my opinion but i do agree with what you say.
[spoiler]You CAN go to Norfair early if you bomb jump past the wall in your way which does make the screw attack less useless but not much. You can also ignore mother brain once her glass shatters and just leave and escape xD[/spoiler]

[Jordan5]

[spoiler=Yeah, but...]
Screw attack is locked behind a ridley statue, and Kraid is piss easy, so even if you get it 'early', it's still pretty useless.
[/spoiler]

[RealRed]

TL/DR - This isn't the NEStroid in Super you were hoping for. Project/Bloodsonic still living in the past trying to be elitest about a pile of average-at-best. Nothing more than a half hack of NEStroid that got the Drewseph Axiel Edition marketing treatment. NEStroid still has better controls than this.

I played the hack and I thought it was fun. I enjoyed not bombing every tile for secret bomb blocks for a change. Stop trying to read between the lines, you mediocre dirtbag.

working on a hack doesn't put someone in a position of respect. Hell, completing a hack doesn't put someone in a position of respect. Just a step closer to a DMCA or C&D. If you're lucky, someone might be willing enough to apply the ips patch to a rom, provided they know how. get over yourself, MetroidMST.

[Quote58]

you mediocre assfuck.

Oh man, you're so mature. Almost as mature as when project complained about mst insulting him, and then said how he's a "sub-human existence not worth acknowledging".
Mst's post was 50% anger and 50% critique, but a) his complaints about the hack are fair, and b) you insulting him doesn't make you look any better.

I'm playing the hack so I can know how I objectively feel about this hack (so far it's alright, some things I enjoy some things I don't, couple bugs, pretty standard), and when I'm done I'll write a short review.

Fact is though, it doesn't matter who made this hack. We should judge it based on it's merits as a hack, regardless of the person behind it. Because it wasn't just project who made this hack. There were lots of people who contributed (even I contributed a few things, and if he hadn't left I was going to make a mini ridely), so let's just look at the hack for what it is. A hack that aims to recreate metroid 1 in a modified super metroid engine. Doesn't matter what the main author was aiming for with the hack right now, and insulting each other is just petty and childish.

[RealRed]

Darn it! He got me with the troll bait. I lose.

I don't appreciate the unnecessary call out though. I don't know when or why the hack was started. IRC is not a mystic Shrine of Truth. People just get on there and talk or joke. And this hack WAS finished before two hacks that began development years prior.I have just as much a right to enjoy this hack and not that hack. Take me out of your conspiracy theory please.

[Vismund Cygnus]

Almost as mature as when project complained about mst insulting him, and then said how he's a "sub-human existence not worth acknowledging".

To be fair, Mst instigated the name calling:

And now you've got your retarded bro blowing smoke up your butt

So how about we take your advice:

We should judge it based on it's merits as a hack, regardless of the person behind it

and focus on the hack itself, rather than the shit-slinging that this thread is slowly evolving into?

Speaking of, I should probably actually throw in my two cents about this hack:
[spoiler]
I actually beat it, which is more than I can say for the original game. While at first I didn't like the "forcing you to take the Kraid first route" without IBJing, it makes sense in a lot of ways, considering that if you're planning on going to Norfair/Ridley first you're going to need to know how to IBJ anyway. It's a non-issue for any experienced player, whilst removing any potential headaches for a newer player.
Mechanically my biggest gripe is the lack of a run mechanic. It seems to have been taken out simply as a homage to the original game, however given the rather liberal changes from Metroid to Retroid, I'm not really sure why the run mechanic was removed. I'd personally love to speedrun the game but the lack of a run function makes it less friendly for it than it would otherwise be.
Outside of that, my only real issue is how much of a difficulty spike Ridley is. The rest of the hack has a fairly low skill ceiling, then out of nowhere Ridley comes and fucks you directly in the ass. Admittedly, I did take the Ridley first route, but I'd already picked up Gravity suit by this stage, and the fact that his tail hits for a full tank of damage is pretty nuts.

Overall though, I enjoyed the hack and all of its mechanics outside of those couple of things. As I said, I can't necessarily speak for how true to the original game it is, but I had a lot of fun with it.
On a semi-related note, custom soundtrack would be fucking rad.
[/spoiler]

[Digital_Mantra]

Anyone else try to do the bomb hop? Yeah I was hoping that would have been a thing too.





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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz67BK58xR0

[MetroidMst]

If you mean the early entry into Tourian, I didn't get to extensively into it. You could probably manage that though, since I'm assuming you can jump out if you accidentally fall in, which means you have the jump height to clear the lava and start an IBJ.

[MollyAncalime]

Damn, the vitriol here is inside.

Friendly PSA that running isn't removed at all because if you hold what was the run button, you slow down to a normal walk. You're always running, normally.

[Digital_Mantra]

Nah it was that M1 BOMB iHOP thing where you lay a bomb stand on it have it push you up and jump while in the air for extra height. Gives you like an extra 4 pancakes on a stack scale.

[MetroidMst]

Yeah that is not in it unfortunately. Can't roll off a ledge, unmorph, and jump either.

[Quote58]

Almost as mature as when project complained about mst insulting him, and then said how he's a "sub-human existence not worth acknowledging".

To be fair, Mst instigated the name calling:

And now you've got your retarded bro blowing smoke up your butt

Yes and my point was that they were just as immature about it. I was really just trying to say that they're all being childish and we should just talk about the hack regardless of the author.

And RR idk what conspiracy you're talking about I was mostly talking about MST when I was saying we should separate the author from the hack.


So with regard to the running, is the auto run the standard run speed from super or did he make it a bit slower?

e: phone typing is hard

[Vismund Cygnus]

Damn, the vitriol here is inside.

Friendly PSA that running isn't removed at all because if you hold what was the run button, you slow down to a normal walk. You're always running, normally.

The holding run speed and not holding run speed are exactly the same, based on my super scientific tests (in which I opened the ROM and ran the exact same distance and measured the time it took to cross it). The only difference is when you hold run you won't spinjump. Feel free to test it yourself because I'm not going to the effort of making a video to compare them.

So with regard to the running, is the auto run the standard run speed from super or did he make it a bit slower?

From what I can tell it's the same speed as not holding run in the original game. Correct me if I'm wrong Project (assuming you actually know).

[Derakon]

Honestly, if/when I ever make a Metroidvania game, at most it will have a "don't run" button. Retroid's controls are fine; y'all're just confused by change. :lol:

[ProjectXIX]

I may or may not be updating this at a (much) later time with a sort of NG+ deal (though it would be more accurate to call it an expansion requiring a completed save file.) In the meantime, don't expect any bugfixes as those will hopefully all be fixed when/if I release the expansion. If I don't release it, you're probably shit out of luck because it probably means I'm too bored of hacking to do the parts of it I like, much less the parts I don't. A Retroid 2 has also been in the works since before I finished Retroid 1, so I can't guarantee that won't distract me from updating this. Don't hold your breath for either of them, but you know.

As for the complaints:
- Running was removed because SM is significantly faster than NEStroid and this is already a pretty short hack. As far as I remember, the walking speed isn't changed from vanilla.
- Said "expansion" will probably include the addition of the NEStroid tricks and details that are missing if I can figure out how to do them.
- If Ridley is too hard in the newest version, you're a fuckin' casual (though I will say Charge Beam seems to make him significantly easier than trying to take him on with missiles.)
- I may remove the IBJ requirement from Norfair without High Jump, tbh the only reason you need High Jump for Norfair is because I misunderstood the NEStroid map I was going off of.
- So far I haven't heard any good things about the boss statues blocking items, so I'll probably remove them. Not quite sure what I want to do with the items behind them yet, but Screw Attack will probably be earlier and Charge Beam may be later.
- Custom music might be a possibility, but I doubt I have to point out why there's a good chance it won't happen.

And lastly, I won't name names but... stay mad. :^)