Hi guys I'm new here, trying to figure things out

[jewelediris]

I've recently discovered the world of SM hacking, I've been working with Smile 2.5 for about 4 months now.  learning a lot of stuff, but some things just baffle me.  like editing Kraid and Ridley HP, boss pallettes.  I have no clue with that kind of stuff.  its like another language, any helpful advise?

[jewelediris]

another thing I'd like to do eventually is put a 2nd Spore Spawn in Maridia, with a blue colored pallete and stronger HP

[begrimed]

To adjust Kraid/Ridley HP, there is an option to 'move off-screen enemy/PLMs to screen'. For Kraid, there is a knight-looking enemy with an HP value you can edit. I couldn't tell you how to clone Spore Spawn like that, as I haven't done it myself.

[jewelediris]

ok I tired that, editing his HP doesn't seem to change anything, what am I doing wrong?

[Dark-SA-X]

ok I tried that, editing his HP doesn't seem to change anything, what am I doing wrong?

If your using smile 2.5 to edit his hp and stats thats the wrong way to do it.
Smile 2.5 has some missing enemie data that jathys didn't get a chance to put in.
Use Smile 2.80jx for editing kraids data, look at his original hp stats and increase it.
Remember that missles and mainly super missles will beat him easily.

If kraid has a hp of 700, you could bump it up to 1700.
You save the enemey dna in smile 2.80jx, double back to smile 2.5.
Go to kraids room and save the room, sometimes kraids room will get jacked up by 2.80jx.

[Vismund Cygnus]

No wonder your Kraid fight took you 10 minutes.
The health value in SMILE is in hexadecimal format. Bumping it up by 1000 is actually increasing it by 4096 for a total of 5888 - more than triple the original health total. For reference, a standard charges Ice/Wave?Plasma shot deals 384 (900 dec) damage. That's 7 hits with the strongest collectable beam in the game. A super missile deals 12C/300 damage. That's a huge amount of time wasted on a boring boss.

tl;dr don't increase Kraid's health by that much ever

[Dark-SA-X]

No wonder your Kraid fight took you 10 minutes.
The health value in SMILE is in hexadecimal format. Bumping it up by 1000 is actually increasing it by 4096 for a total of 5888 - more than triple the original health total. For reference, a standard charges Ice/Wave?Plasma shot deals 384 (900 dec) damage. That's 7 hits with the strongest collectable beam in the game. A super missile deals 12C/300 damage. That's a huge amount of time wasted on a boring boss.

tl;dr don't increase Kraid's health by that much ever

Well Vismundo if I can get a few things adjusted you can play kraid yourself.  :^_^:
Also the kraid you saw in my video doesn't have 1700, you'll see for yourself when I mail you a test copy sometime soon.
If you have good skills you could make short work of him in no time.
Any normal beams won't work on him sadly, only his mouth part is damage capable, with missles and charged shots.

[jewelediris]

ok smile 2.8j, gotcha, I wanna maybe triple his HP.  coming out of Norfair with Spazer Ice, and Wave, vanilla Kraid is just way too easy.  so are you saying no matter how much I increase his health, Super Missliles are gonna kill him quick anyway?

[jewelediris]

this is where I'm at with this.  Its an ongoing work in progress

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWhdCh7Sqwk

[Smiley]

Don't use Red Crateria. Ever.
I do however like your Gravity Suit palette.

Everything else... I can see you're experimenting around and learning some things. Keep that up. :^_^:

Oh, and hard mode hacks that just buff enemies, weaken Samus and put spikes and acid everywhere are all seen and done. Just sayan'.

[Quietus]

so are you saying no matter how much I increase his health, Super Missliles are gonna kill him quick anyway?

No, Vismund was just saying that you should be careful when you're converting numbers between decimal and hexadecimal. Bumping his health up like you did means that it'd take 20 super missiles to kill him. :^_^:

[Dark-SA-X]

so are you saying no matter how much I increase his health, Super Missliles are gonna kill him quick anyway?

No, Vismund was just saying that you should be careful when you're converting numbers between decimal and hexadecimal. Bumping his health up like you did means that it'd take 20 super missiles to kill him. :^_^:

Alright then time for you to go to work my kraid has this much hp 3500 the original kraid has hp 03E8.
With no varia pick up no super missles, no powerbombs and you only have 50 missles and a charge beam with wave beam or ice beam.

How many hits will he need via through missles and charge shots to die ?

[Kazuto]

How many hits will he need via through missles and charge shots to die ?

Far too many.  Missiles cause 64 hex damage, which means that at 3500 hex health, you'd have to land 135 Missiles in his mouth to kill him.  That doesn't even factor in the time spent getting his mouth open in the first place via Charge shots.

Charge beam does 3C damage, Charge/Ice does 5A damage, and Charge/Wave does 96 damage.  Meaning in the best case, you'd have to land 90 Charge/Wave shots, and at worst, you'd have to land 226 Charge shots.  No matter which way this is broken down, it all adds up to a Kraid fight that could take a good 20-30 minutes, which is horrible design.

If you lack the knowledge to make a boss fight more interesting via coding, don't substitute that with simply making it take longer to kill.  It's neither interesting nor good design.

tl;dr don't increase Kraid's health by that much ever

[Dark-SA-X]

How many hits will he need via through missles and charge shots to die ?

Far too many.  Missiles cause 64 hex damage, which means that at 3500 hex health, you'd have to land 135 Missiles in his mouth to kill him.  That doesn't even factor in the time spent getting his mouth open in the first place via Charge shots.

Well then suffer you shall, 10 minutes or less boss fight means pure goodness, 35 seconds or 1 minute second boss fight with the original hp you must be kidding.
His nails offer missle drops so the player will have something to fall back on if he or she fails to hit him Inconsistently.
Think about it for awhile, I already have the video to prove its not that hard especially since he will damage you normally and no spiked floors.

[Smiley]

We've been over this. It's not hard. It's tedious. It's boring.

[Kazuto]

How many hits will he need via through missles and charge shots to die ?

Far too many.  Missiles cause 64 hex damage, which means that at 3500 hex health, you'd have to land 135 Missiles in his mouth to kill him.  That doesn't even factor in the time spent getting his mouth open in the first place via Charge shots.

Well then suffer you shall, 10 minute boss fight means pure goodness, 35 second boss fight with the original  hp you must kidding.
Think about it for awhile, I already have the video to prove its not that hard especially since he will damage you normally and no spiked floors.

It isn't about it being hard, it's about it being boring.  The reason people like to edit the bosses is because everybody has beaten the original ones again and again.  It's why enemies with modified AI are interesting in Super Metroid hacks, because it's something new.

Simply making a boss battle take longer because the original was short is just boring, period.  I'm not against changing the health limits, but it should be something reasonably timed for where you're at in the game at that point.

In your particular instance, with 50 Missiles and the possibility of Charge/Wave, I'd only go as high as maybe 8CA with Kraid.  That would be 15 Charge/Wave shots or 22 Missiles.  22 is a fairly reasonable number when you might have 50 at that point, since it also accounts for shooting his mouth open.  It gives some leeway, but not enough that you can just fire as many Missiles as you want and not run out.

Without thinking about balance, your hack isn't going to be any good.  Sorry to have to tell you this, but it's the truth.

[Dark-SA-X]

Well you got the thinking part right, I already took other enemies and balanced out their power.
Think about what samus has currently, it'll be a fair fight if you how to fight it and which weapons will and won't work.

[Zero One]

Massively bloating boss health to increase the "challenge" is dumb, but he won't figure that out until everybody plays the hack and tells him how dumb it is.


It's also quite irrelevant to this thread, so let's get it back on track.

[Kazuto]

It's also quite irrelevant to this thread, so let's get it back on track.

Incidentally, the only reason I replied to that at all is because OP asked about editing enemy health in the first place.  I'm hoping they'll see the conversation about balance and not get too out of control with bloating health values...

By the way, jewelediris, I meant to tell you that I actually like your palette edits so far.  It's surprising to see Varia/Gravity suits that are totally color changed, which also look decent.  The colors don't stand out in a ridiculous way, they actually look believable for a Metroid game.

[FPzero]

Getting away from a topic that has been discussed in at least two other threads by now...

jewelediris: What I'm seeing so far is a good start on your part. You've begun to understand how to lay down tiles and make changes to Enemies and PLMs. That's good! Hard hacks don't usually take too much time to complete and yours looks pretty far along at this point. I would encourage you to finish up this project and start something new. Use this hack as a starting point to try new things.  To that end, I do have some suggestions:

-Try making rooms without using the CRE tiles. I've noticed lots of your rooms are constructed out of the CRE metal blocks and while there's nothing stopping you from doing that there are many, many other tiles in the tilesets that you can work with. Look at examples of landscaping from existing rooms and see if you can start building some of your own. Personally, I find the Crateria set to be the easiest to work with, so you may wish to start with that one.
-Even if you don't do any room resizing, try remixing the existing rooms a little bit. Change the player's path through them, or introduce new enemies to rooms more often to keep players guessing at what will come next.
-If you apply some sort of graphics repointing patch, or use one of Project Base's base patches, you should have the ability to edit tileset palettes and insert your own custom graphics. Your suit palettes tell me that you have a good understanding of how to palette things, so the next step would be to make new palettes for the world itself.

Even if others tell you that hard hacks have all been done before, don't stop. If nothing else, use your current project as a beginning or a springboard to get better and better. Plenty of people here made multiple hacks, released and unreleased before really getting comfortable with the game. Good luck!

[jewelediris]

thank you, as I've said this is a work in progress, I'm playing with features as I learn how to change them.  my desired goal is to make a game that anyone can play at any skill level.  Most of my gamer friends who I kinda want to appeal to have basic to Moderate skill level.  I have played a few really good hacks, but some of them are ridiculously difficult and I can get anywhere in them.  ie.  Hyper Metroid, Super Zero Mission...  I actually have run into a couple things.  not sure whats going on.  I have followed instruction given to me to change Kraid HP, I'm changing value and in game its not changing.  the most I have been able to notice is, despite what I change HP to, I've only been able to get Kraid to go up from 4 Super Missles to 5 or 6, it seems to vary I can't seem to get an accurate exact figure, so I'm not even sure if the change in value is working, just to try to get results I kicked it up to 1700 as suggested near the top and it didn't change anything, still taking 6 Supers, so I changed it back to what I had it set to before.

How many hits will he need via through missles and charge shots to die ?

Far too many.  Missiles cause 64 hex damage, which means that at 3500 hex health, you'd have to land 135 Missiles in his mouth to kill him.  That doesn't even factor in the time spent getting his mouth open in the first place via Charge shots.

Charge beam does 3C damage, Charge/Ice does 5A damage, and Charge/Wave does 96 damage.  Meaning in the best case, you'd have to land 90 Charge/Wave shots, and at worst, you'd have to land 226 Charge shots.

This ^ is actually the kind of information I wanted to know

[jewelediris]

I totally just butchered that quote

[jewelediris]

oh, 2 other problems I've run into I was randomly playtesting my hack/mod and entered a room, I've never edited, never touched it in smile, and it crashed the game, no idea why, also in the area that is the entrance to the wrecked ship, Items I placed are randomly not being there.  I don't know what thats about either

[Dark-SA-X]

oh, 2 other problems I've run into I was randomly playtesting my hack/mod and entered a room, I've never edited, never touched it in smile, and it crashed the game,

About the first problem when you were editing some rooms, did smile mention that one of those rooms maybe big and might need to repoint it elsewhere to make it work ?
If so smile may have took a little bit of data and move it elsewhere to make more room causing this problem to occur.

[FPzero]

That sort of thing can happen often and seemingly at random. I know it's happened to me more times than I can count. The most likely causes deal with overwritten data in the room header. Somewhere along the way you might have accidentally saved a room when it was too big for its allotted room size. In this case, the room data overwrites a different room's header, causing the game to not know what to load and instead load garbage, nothing, freeze, or some combination of the three. Unfortunately, these things are hard to diagnose, and the most common "solution" is to restore a backup and not do whatever it is you did to cause it. But if the cause is something you did a LONG time ago and didn't catch, your most recent backups will have that error in them. In my first major project I somehow broke the room data for all the Save Rooms and didn't catch it until it was too late. In my most recent one, somewhere along the way I broke one of the tilesets I custom built and entering the rooms that use it load nothing but black and cause Samus to fall into the void.

You might be able to get someone here to have a look at the broken room in question. They might be able to look at it with a hex editor and determine what happened to cause your room to explode. I'd offer, but, well, there's a reason I haven't been working on my latest project lately, and that reason is because I'm in the same boat as you right now.