Metroid Other ZM - A Metroid Zero Mission Hack

[Paulinho]

luce ep 15 at 2:40.. but isnt that were charge beam is.....(...)

Okay, you asked about the exit from the Charge Beam room. Makes sense now.

Hey luce

[spoiler]

I think i just figured out how to enter in the special varia room but, i'm having problems with the early power bomb and i surrender to check with Mage. There is a door very well hidden to another room ( the room behind the kiru giru mini boss ).. but i searched every block in this room in mage and there is no way to the power bomb room, is this a bug or there is another room to acess the early power bomb? because the secret gap brings you to the another part of the power bomb room and without gravity suit you can't jump in the lava to acess the power bomb

[/spoiler]

You see, this is a product of earlier limitations I faced while hacking.

[spoiler]
At the time, I didn't know how to add area connections. I had to link the proper path back to Norfair to that room between Kiru Giru and Imago, because it holds an area connecting door - quite a cheap trick, but I hold off making a proper new area connection, because I have other plans with it, once again, when I'm able to quickly add new rooms.

You can get this Power Bomb without Gravity Suit, there is a hidden path back that avoids the lava and can be found by... well, using a Power Bomb after you get them there.
[/spoiler]

oh...

[spoiler]

After you get the power bomb you can destroy the power bomb blocks and get out the room, but to enter in this room, there is only the door that links the power bomb room and the "before Kiru giru" room protected by speed booster blocks.. am I supposed to enter the room by this 'before kiru giru room' or am I supposed to enter by another way? I'm completely lost, searched for every room in Norfair and none of them has a door to this special door in power bomb room

[/spoiler]

EDIT: I found it

[spoiler]

I found the door in ridley but seems impossible to get in it and enter the room. Another think, how the hell i'll enter it with speed boost?  :lol:
Any hints?
[/spoiler]

[renkoha]

@Paulinho [spoiler]the key is vertical section next to map room in ridley, which involves the missile tank at the top of that section, once you get that tank disable some layers and you'll see the path you are looking for but i warn you, you must have full health and 3 energy tanks or you will not survive afterwards [/spoiler]

Edit: @Luce Seyfarth there is a way to obtain charge beam early right? because if not i just found one

[Luce Seyfarth]

(...)
Edit: @Luce Seyfarth there is a way to obtain charge beam early right? because if not i just found one

Genius! :D
There's no intended way. Please, show me the way :)

[Paulinho]

@Paulinho [spoiler]the key is vertical section next to map room in ridley, which involves the missile tank at the top of that section, once you get that tank disable some layers and you'll see the path you are looking for but i warn you, you must have full health and 3 energy tanks or you will not survive afterwards [/spoiler]

Edit: @Luce Seyfarth there is a way to obtain charge beam early right? because if not i just found one

LOL

[spoiler]
I just saw that room and super missile block a few days ago, and forget about it.. thanks for the advice, now i've managed to get in the room.. but, let me ask you, why did you said that we need at least 3 power tanks to beat it? You don't fight anyone in this speedrun, only the annoying flying bug but it isn't a really powerfull enemy.
[/spoiler]

Hey @Luce Seyfarth

[spoiler]

I think you should make the super missile block in this early power bomb tricky visible to a power bomb denotation, because the way it is i think it's nearly impossible to a player discover this thing without MAGE ou Double Helix.. but that's only an idea, i don't know if you are planning on changing the entire method in the future or something like that  :lol:

[/spoiler]

[renkoha]

@Paulinho sorry i miscalculated that requirements

@Luce Seyfarth really? i could swear it was totally intended as kraid escape route but before i tell you one question, should i post it here or in a private message?

now bug report for clipping error version

1) in kraid scape route the missile block that block the way out can't be permanently destroyed, if you take it out and reenter the room it will be there again, it doesn't make the way out impossible but way more skilled wise, if that's intended good for veterans but bad for noobs my suggestion is to fix it for normal mode but not for hard mode

2) varia suit statue is not marked in the map as it should after getting the varia suit

3) remember the missing save room in pirate space ship? well the room works fine before beating mother brain and in zero suit but not in full suit cause save machine is gone and some sort of "eye" is displayed on the upper part where save machine should be

4) i noticed how the orange/green circles at tourian in the room before mother brain give energy and super missiles only but not normal missiles, on the other hand inside mother brain room circles give only normal missiles not supers at all, is that intended?

5) in space pirate's ship i noticed black pirates can't follow you trough small passages, is that intended as well?

6) screw attack can't destroy purple roots in norfair, that happened in original as well but i think is a bit inconsistent, same thing happens with purple insects but that's ok this is just small details

7) remember the mini boss in the room before kraid/ridley gate in brinstar? i think is being totally wasted since in order to activate this fight you must go to the gate and come back to the door on the right which you never do thus making this fight a waste, almost same thing happens with miniboss fight in kraid i think something should be done there, i'll give it a though and post the suggestions later

that's all i got for now, i'll take a look around now on the second run to see what other stuff may be off

[00kraken00]

Ima back ive just upload all 3 early unknown items. Luce very clever(my least fav was early plasma because no power grip till speed booster.. im going to work on power bombs and screw attack next(i have no idea how to get early screw attack(i know were but not were the entrance is)) all will be on youtube.
Paul the point on the early powerbomb is for it to be hard.
Edit: Luce u are evil with the power bombs for those who dont have save state have fun spending and hour(still luce good job) if anyone can pm me a hint on the route to early screw attack would be nice(i know were it is but not how to get their))
Edit: Screw attack is up need all unknown items for it(no power grip till after speed boaster) have fun. For those who dont know power bomb varia suit is up were the acid worm boss was(still dont know were early varia is)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL25R1o-Nb7-9ryr8YQDRmYZn6vdJH0DTI

[Paulinho]

i'm very upset. I managed to collect the early power bomb and managed to reach, finally, the early varia suit room.. to find nothing[/i]

My upgrades are: Long Beam, Wave Beam, Bombs and Power Bombs, Missiles and Super missiles, Morph ball, speed booster and High Jump. Is there anything wrong @Luce Seyfarth  or is this a bug?

[spoiler]https://www.dropbox.com/s/sfotjv3o6my9mz4/Foto%2008-04-17%2019%2003%2015.jpg?dl=0[/spoiler]

@00kraken00

[spoiler]The early varia suit room is where was supposed to be a saving room in the brinstar second vertical room, the room with the fake energy tank. You need to speed booster from the bug nest room and keep the speed booster on going, then you do another speed booster to find the door and make some speed booster skills in the room to make to the varia room, it requires some skill from the player and a lot of save states[/spoiler]

[Luce Seyfarth]

@Luce Seyfarth really? i could swear it was totally intended as kraid escape route but before i tell you one question, should i post it here or in a private message?

Would've been okay to post here, but thanks anyway :)
I didn't think of shinesparking in liquids. I know that I've read somewhere that re-building a shinespark after sparking into a slope doesn't work in liquids without the Gravity Suit and sort of assumed you couldn't shinespark at all.
Well, I will fix that for the next bugfix, thanks.

now bug report for clipping error version

1) in kraid scape route the missile block that block the way out can't be permanently destroyed, if you take it out and reenter the room it will be there again, it doesn't make the way out impossible but way more skilled wise, if that's intended good for veterans but bad for noobs my suggestion is to fix it for normal mode but not for hard mode

No, thats intentional :P

2) varia suit statue is not marked in the map as it should after getting the varia suit

Oops, didn't see that. Thanks for that.

3) remember the missing save room in pirate space ship? well the room works fine before beating mother brain and in zero suit but not in full suit cause save machine is gone and some sort of "eye" is displayed on the upper part where save machine should be

Should be fixed in the current downloadable version.

4) i noticed how the orange/green circles at tourian in the room before mother brain give energy and super missiles only but not normal missiles, on the other hand inside mother brain room circles give only normal missiles not supers at all, is that intended?

Mh... I will check that.

5) in space pirate's ship i noticed black pirates can't follow you trough small passages, is that intended as well?

That's their normal AI, I think.

6) screw attack can't destroy purple roots in norfair, that happened in original as well but i think is a bit inconsistent, same thing happens with purple insects but that's ok this is just small details

Normal behavour, yes. I will think of changing that, but don't count on it.

7) remember the mini boss in the room before kraid/ridley gate in brinstar? i think is being totally wasted since in order to activate this fight you must go to the gate and come back to the door on the right which you never do thus making this fight a waste, almost same thing happens with miniboss fight in kraid i think something should be done there, i'll give it a though and post the suggestions later

I have plans for both mini bosses. For the one in Brinstar, I actually have a very interesting plan that will make it much more difficult. Also it won't be in Brinstar anymore.

i'm very upset. I managed to collect the early power bomb and managed to reach, finally, the early varia suit room.. to find nothing[/i]

My upgrades are: Long Beam, Wave Beam, Bombs and Power Bombs, Missiles and Super missiles, Morph ball, speed booster and High Jump. Is there anything wrong @Luce Seyfarth  or is this a bug?

[spoiler]https://www.dropbox.com/s/sfotjv3o6my9mz4/Foto%2008-04-17%2019%2003%2015.jpg?dl=0[/spoiler]

Haha :D
You missed one step, actually.
[spoiler]
have you been to the hidden room behind the one which has the normal Varia Suit? There's also a Missile Container there.
[/spoiler]

[00kraken00]

Found the room...  this should  be fun... I love speed boaster puzzles are fun. Paul u should change ur pic back. It doesn't fit Metroid anymore.. and Luce don't fix early charge beam that's actually a good sequence break. There were sequence break in the original game leave it in maybe make it so u need the early unknown item from ridly or cratiriea but don't remove it. But do make it so u need all early unknown items.

[renkoha]

@Luce Seyfarth i knew you were going to fix it once i told you how i did it but that's fine since is obtained after getting speed booster and high jump boots, anyway try adding some item barriers like unknow/screw attack blocks or color doors.

great news for miniboss plans i feel this hack needs more big enemies battles.

as for puzzle tricks here are a few tips that may help you build more deep stuff:

1) it is possible to do underwater wall jumping

2) it is possible to do morphball jumping starting from liquids if you can be outside the liquid by the time bombs explode, for instance i use this trick to get the super missile tank below norfair map room

3) it is also possible to do diagonal bomb jump, not for too long though but is possible

i'll give you more tips later

[Luce Seyfarth]

Actually, Charge Beam is supposed to be a late game upgrade, only obtainable after getting the Fully Powered Suit. Reason is the whole beam switch mechanic. I also have plans to use Charge Beam as a key later.
Now, sequence breaks are a point. The only real breaks as of now are the early unknown items, Screw Attack, Full Suit (which allows for getting Charge Beam before Mother Brain, too, actually). Areas Kraid and Ridley can be done in any order. Chozodia can be done after visiting either Kraid or Ridley before. So while there aren't any more sequence breaks, the sequence itself can differ in many ways.

I may think of new sequence breaks later. In later updates, Spring Ball will be possible to sequence break.


@renkoha
1) I know. That is why I made it impossible to get the Charge Beam by doing that.

2) I know. It is used in one of the current 100% speedrun routed for Zero Mission.

3) Actually, diagonal bomb jumping is really easy and can be done infefinitely, as long as there isn't any blockade in the way. Just lay a bomb, move slightly to one side, then begin steering in the opposite direction you want to go once the bomb explodes.
Horizontal bomb jumping is possible, too. That is the tricky one, actually. Acid Worm skip without Power Grip in the original Zero Mission requires it. Just wait for the evil, evil ways I can go with horizontal bomb jumps if I want... :D

Well, I started hacking Zero Mission after a lot of speedrunning and learning most of its physics inside and out. That Shinespark out of liquids slipped me, because it was never required in the original, for one thing.


Well I can and will remove and rework the existing minibosses, the problem is just the lack of more bosses. With only so many to work with, there is not much else I can do for now...

[Paulinho]

Yes, finally got the early full suit haha.

@Luce Seyfarth

I tought this hidden zipline activator in kraid was a 'earlier zipline activator', so you didn't need to go to chozodia to kill kraid and ridley, i would never imagine it was an activator to the special varia suit. Cool.

Now that i know all the way to the early unknown itens, special varia and other sequence breaks from this mod i'll make some more suggestions later, but one involves zero suit samus path. If you have the early power bomb you could skip 70% of the path to the chozo test, but you'll have to change a crumble block in the connection between the space ship and the chozo ruins

@00kraken00

Is a forum rule that we need to put a metroid-related img in profile?

[00kraken00]

no .. i just the color stands out from everything as u scroll down its just contrasts like crazy... u can get early full suit?

[Paulinho]

@kraken

[spoiler]

Yes.. I was ready to say 'hey luce, why give ways to have the unknown itens early if we can't use them... but then i discovered that this special varia ( the one with the big shoulders that you won after the chozo test ) gives you the ability to unlock the unknown itens, so this way you can have early full suit before ANY boss, also you can skip kraid and ridley and go direct to mother brain skipping also ice beam




[/spoiler]

[Luce Seyfarth]

Actually, getting unknown items early provides shortcuts through Kraid and Ridley it gives access to power ups. Also it changes possible combinations for low% runs.

That was the original idea behind it.

Of course, going for early Full Suit first makes them usable, too, which is the entire purpose behind that stupidly hard sequence break - try murdering Ridley with Charge Beam. So satisfying :D

BTW, you just need Power Bomb to skip Ridley and Kraid. You may also defeat both of them, but skip the zipline activator (and thus going to Chozodia before Mother Brain).

Many possibilities.

[00kraken00]

is the full powered suit the one in brinstar i tried making a video... but the varia wasn't there what are all the requirements(i know u cant get it with the unknown items)

[Paulinho]

is the full powered suit the one in brinstar i tried making a video... but the varia wasn't there what are all the requirements(i know u cant get it with the unknown items)

[spoiler]


1) You can't have the varia suit ( for obvious reasons )
2) You can't have the power grip
3) You need the early power bomb
4) You need to activate a zipline hidden in the room behind the room with the normal varia suit in Kraid. Go with your full powered samus file and detonate some power bombs in that room and you'll find what you are after.



[/spoiler]

@luce

I understand. There are many possibilities that the game invites you to more runs. The major point in your mod is that you change a lot the Zero mission, making new sequence breaks, more difficult, but you don't lose the spirit of the game, it's just like an 'insane' difficulty of the game, what's very interesting for veteran players. I'll definitily play your hack instead from the normal game from now on  :lol:
Going to chozodia before mother brain and killing pirates with few missiles is cool

[makazuwr32]

... killing pirates with few missiles is cool

actually you CAN kill with missles normal pirates (not black ones) in normal ZM but who cares that when you have your powerful long+charge+ice+wave+plazma beam and when they are SO weak to your beam weapon?

Also i'm trying now to complete the game on hard mode with 100% but... i'm a bit nervous of pirates damage in 400 energy points when i have only 699...

[renkoha]

bug report: secondary location for screw attack is incorrectly displayed in map if you get early screw attack

also if you recharge energy on that statue color palette for missiles and bombs icons are swap but can be fixed if you press r button

[00kraken00]

Well im doing the early full powersuit as a mini series cause u need alot to do it. AND luce im not going to use savestates on this one.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL25R1o-Nb7-9ryr8YQDRmYZn6vdJH0DTI.
theres the first ep. The resion i post the playlist is becasue it doesnt clog up the fourms with videos

[Fauxiey]

Don't know if this is only me or not but for some reason when I start the game it always starts me in the Zero Suit, is this normal?

https://puu.sh/vsVCO/af6923123b.png
Image of it

[00kraken00]

No its not normal... thanks obama

[Luce Seyfarth]

Don't know if this is only me or not but for some reason when I start the game it always starts me in the Zero Suit, is this normal?

https://puu.sh/vsVCO/af6923123b.png
Image of it

Uh, something went wrong with the last update. I fixed it now, try redownloading from romhacking.net in a couple days.

bug report: secondary location for screw attack is incorrectly displayed in map if you get early screw attack

also if you recharge energy on that statue color palette for missiles and bombs icons are swap but can be fixed if you press r button

Do you mean the map sprite for the Screw Attack you just collected or the one you didn't collect?

Second bug is known, couldn't fix it by playing with room layers until now. Will probably relocate Screw Attack later anyway. Until then, as you just stated you can press r, so it is just a minor bug.

[enajor66]

Having beaten ZM, this game was still annoying. no offense, but I found some of your difficulty increasing methods kind of lazy, like enemies doing triple damage. also FAKE ENERGY TANKS? WHY?! I did not really enjoy this hack, but I beat it because it shames me to not beat a hack that I start.

[00kraken00]

hey its supposed to be like a vertren+ hack... if u want an easy hack go play with debug mode.