Metroid Other ZM - A Metroid Zero Mission Hack

[Luce Seyfarth]

It should not be possible to get stuck so that the game can't be finished. The only place you have to reload is if you mess up is in Kraid, where there's no save station in that loop.

Well you shot the missile block from where you are now and opened the left passage, which leads to the missile block below. Now you have to find the passage leading to the left side of the room. Try looking for rooms that have suspicious things in them, from which there may be a passage. Look on your map to find a good starting point. Also this is probably the hardest secret required for beating the game.

Why haven't you collected the powerups on the far bottom left? If you run from as far right as you can, it should be possible to start a shine charge before running into that wall.

[FPzero]

I didn't see how to get the one in the bottom left, though I didn't look very hard. The other two felt like they would be easier to obtain when I had wave beam like I would usually have for that puzzle (since I'm pretty sure you didn't change that puzzle).  I'll keep looking for a path so I can reach that missile block. My first guess was to look for the rooms that would usually be under the fake floor energy tank in the original, where you now have a fake E Tank, but I can't seem to find an entrance to those rooms anymore. I'll keep looking.

[FPzero]

Just beat Ridley.  :grin:

Edit: You can get trapped here.

[Luce Seyfarth]

Seems you where looking in the right room after all :P

Damn, I didn't see that one - That's what you get if you don't test easy mode enough -.-
Will remove that block then, thanks.

EDIT: Removed that block on easy mode as well, fix can be found at the same place as before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vc8n3fh7iniz9ei/Metroid%20Other%20ZM.zip?dl=0

[FPzero]

Well I'm almost at the end of the game now. I have all the upgrades and am at Mecha Ridley's door but one thing is bothering me. I can't figure out how to get into this save room and rooms nearby it.

[spoiler]

I tried approaching from all angles and found nothing. I also found something hinting to a room below and right of the last save room before Mecha Ridley but couldn't find an entrance to that one either.[/spoiler]

I don't think I need whatever's hidden in those rooms considering I have all the upgrades but I can't help but wonder how to get in there.

[Luce Seyfarth]

First of, congratulations :)
By all upgrades you mean the major ones? Because there is one Power Bomb expansion in these rooms.
The way to get there is... tricky, to say the least. Another player mailed me after finding the way and I think I will redesign that part. I think you will agree, because you don't even get there from a neighboring room:
[spoiler]
There is a hidden passage here:

which leads to this room:

from where there is a warp to the save room you can't get to otherwise
I have an excellent Idea in mind though, that doesn't require warping from another part of the map.
[/spoiler]
That passage is used to skip Power Bomb by the way.

I have a few questions concerning hidden stuff:
- Did you find the Kraid <-> Norfair shortcut? If so, was it too well hidden in your opinion? If you haven't found it:
[spoiler]
try using a Power Bomb in the room in Norfair where the entrance was in the original
[/spoiler]
- Did you find the Varia Suit upgrade in Kraid?
- And...
[spoiler]
There are ways to get the Unknown Items as well as Screw Attack earlier. After going back to get these Items, did you find any of these ways?
[/spoiler]


EDIT:

I've changed the way you get to that couple of rooms to a more natural one:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86886568/Metroid%20Other%20ZM/Metroid%20Other%20ZM.zip

[FPzero]

You images don't show up because you're using the wrong style of dropbox link. If you have a Public folder, use the Public Link in your image tags, otherwise do a direct link.

I meant that I found all the major ones. I didn't find the Kraid to Norfair shortcut so I guess it was well hidden. I also found Varia Suit, that was certainly helpful.

While I didn't figure out how to get the unknown items early I did see what looked like the path to the Gravity Suit one. I just couldn't find the entrance for it. Not sure how I'd get the screw attack earlier though I might have seen a way to get into the room, just not how I'd get into Chozodia early.

Once I finish the game later I'll have a better writeup. In the meantime, see if you can fix those images, I'm curious exactly how crazy that passage is hidden.

[jaysee87]

[spoiler] [/spoiler]
Is this tunnel supposed to have an alternate entrance? I got unknown item here early with close to nothing else.

[Luce Seyfarth]

@jaysee87:
How... did you get in there? Is that block not solid while using real hardware? I just checked this passage and it isn't possible to crouch where you do. I will make a quick save file, then copy this over to my flashcard to check...
Does this only happen on Gameboy Player for you?

@FPzero:
Huh, thanks for the tips with Dropbox. I will fix the links then.
Well, I didn't say that early Screw Attack is
[spoiler]
located in Chozodia in the first place :P
[/spoiler]
If you look for REALLY crazy hidden passages you should try to look for
[spoiler]
early power bomb
[/spoiler]
As for the warp I mentioned I think it's better to just leave it the way I changed it now.

[FPzero]

Alright I finished with almost 6 hours in-game time and 95% items. Full impressions in the spoiler.

[spoiler]The hack got a lot more enjoyable once I started finding powerups but it is still quite difficult and obtuse at times. Once I learned that to get Power Grip you need to bomb jump over a crumble block with no vertical space I basically said to myself "if I ever find myself asking 'does he really expect me to do that?' the answer is probably yes" and so I stopped being frustrated by silly techniques like that and just rolled with it. Was I really supposed to kill the Wave Beam worm without Wave Beam? I discovered I could shoot it through the floor by firing as I touched the ceiling during a jump. As long as you're ok with few people completing the hack due to difficulty and what it asks of the player, then I guess you've made a successful enough hack.

I liked the changes to the progression, though they were minor. I don't feel like all the heat runs can be done on 99 Energy like you mentioned, though I guess I did a few before I got Varia Suit when I could have gotten it by that time. I hadn't found it yet after all.

I can definitely tell there are alternative paths built into the hack, though they seem to be hidden pretty darn well. I don't think I found any of them early and I certainly didn't get any Unknown Items early. The lack of Charge Beam until late game didn't actually bother me as much as I thought it would. By that point I'd already found strong beams so I didn't mind if I mashed fire a few extra times. I also had enough missiles for the bosses so I didn't miss having charged shots.

I also wish you'd included more Energy Tanks towards the beginning. They are very back-loaded. I think I had only 1 or 2 when I fought Ridley, which was doable, but by the time I got the Fully Powered Suit in Chozodia, I think I only had 5. After that, I scooped them up left and right while collecting the Unknown Items because suddenly they were available to collect. Considering how challenging the hack can get at times, it's a little annoying to be restricted on Energy for 80% of the game.

I would have liked to see more stuff changed in Chozodia. There was a little bit of inspiration by hiding Screw Attack in there and letting the player figure out how to get to it, but other than that there wasn't much changed. Kraid and Ridley might have been a bit too maze-like though, so you probably have to strike a decent balance of maze and straightforward. Not every room you modify has to be an obstacle. Speaking of Ridley, I wish there had been a way to connect the left area to the right area up by the elevator. It was slightly annoying to have to go all the way counter-clockwise through the area just to exit it. I liked how you had to go into Kraid's room before you fought him to steal Speed Booster, then could fight him later once you had more stuff. That was a neat idea.[/spoiler]

Overall, the hack was good once I knew in full what it was expecting of me. The beginning is certainly rough and can be very frustrating, but once you start collecting items and making progress, it gets more enjoyable.  I hope that whenever the new ZM/Fusion editor is released you take a look at it and see about making a more modified (and possibly more accessible) hack. This one was fun but rough around the edges.

[jaysee87]

@jaysee87:
How... did you get in there? Is that block not solid while using real hardware? I just checked this passage and it isn't possible to crouch where you do. I will make a quick save file, then copy this over to my flashcard to check...
Does this only happen on Gameboy Player for you?

There's a glitch in the original game that someone on M2K2 found back in March. If you freeze 2 respawnable enemies in a particular manner, then kill them on the same frame, Samus's vertical position changes to their spawn point vertical position.

[Luce Seyfarth]

There's a glitch in the original game that someone on M2K2 found back in March. If you freeze 2 respawnable enemies in a particular manner, then kill them on the same frame, Samus's vertical position changes to their spawn point vertical position.

Yeah, I remember reading about this a while ago. I won't take into account any glitches, so it's nice someone found this passage that way :)
By the way, the correct entrance is
[spoiler]
hidden directly above the door to the save room on the left.
[/spoiler]

@FPzero:
Out of curiosity, can you take screenshots of your area maps where you missed the last five items?
[spoiler]

The hack got a lot more enjoyable once I started finding powerups but it is still quite difficult and obtuse at times. Once I learned that to get Power Grip you need to bomb jump over a crumble block with no vertical space I basically said to myself "if I ever find myself asking 'does he really expect me to do that?' the answer is probably yes" and so I stopped being frustrated by silly techniques like that and just rolled with it. Was I really supposed to kill the Wave Beam worm without Wave Beam? I discovered I could shoot it through the floor by firing as I touched the ceiling during a jump. As long as you're ok with few people completing the hack due to difficulty and what it asks of the player, then I guess you've made a successful enough hack.

Yes, it was intended as a hack that won't be completed by everyone. Maybe I should clarify the warning in the beginning post a little more? :P
You were supposed to kill the worms without Wave Beam, yes. Though I realise now that you can run out of Missiles there... I had a Version that has a hole under the first Worm so you can kill him with beam shots.

I liked the changes to the progression, though they were minor. I don't feel like all the heat runs can be done on 99 Energy like you mentioned, though I guess I did a few before I got Varia Suit when I could have gotten it by that time. I hadn't found it yet after all.

I had some crazy ideas about item progression, like going the full "items like original Metroid"-way by making Super Missiles only accessible in Chozodia or making you run through some room(s) with Metroids, defeating them via Power Bombs/some other method to get Ice Beam in the first place... Then I realised without supers I have to work with one less "key" among other things. Maybe in the future there will be a version to mix things up more.
I tested all necessary heat runs with only 99 Energy to ensure low percent runs will be possible. Increasing the health drops from enemies there may help, though.

I can definitely tell there are alternative paths built into the hack, though they seem to be hidden pretty darn well. I don't think I found any of them early and I certainly didn't get any Unknown Items early. The lack of Charge Beam until late game didn't actually bother me as much as I thought it would. By that point I'd already found strong beams so I didn't mind if I mashed fire a few extra times. I also had enough missiles for the bosses so I didn't miss having charged shots.

Charge Beam is overrated I think. The main point in the original for me was to have Pseudo Screw Attack. The firepower of one charged shot is only equal to four normal ones, so you can easily compensate by just firing normally.
As for the hidden paths, I'm glad you didn't just stumble upon them because as you may have guessed it was intentional for them to be way harder to find then just the normal route.

I also wish you'd included more Energy Tanks towards the beginning. They are very back-loaded. I think I had only 1 or 2 when I fought Ridley, which was doable, but by the time I got the Fully Powered Suit in Chozodia, I think I only had 5. After that, I scooped them up left and right while collecting the Unknown Items because suddenly they were available to collect. Considering how challenging the hack can get at times, it's a little annoying to be restricted on Energy for 80% of the game.

I have to agree there but I wasn't sure, so I wanted to test this first. All responses I got so far are the same as yours, so that will have to be changed.

I would have liked to see more stuff changed in Chozodia. There was a little bit of inspiration by hiding Screw Attack in there and letting the player figure out how to get to it, but other than that there wasn't much changed. Kraid and Ridley might have been a bit too maze-like though, so you probably have to strike a decent balance of maze and straightforward. Not every room you modify has to be an obstacle. Speaking of Ridley, I wish there had been a way to connect the left area to the right area up by the elevator. It was slightly annoying to have to go all the way counter-clockwise through the area just to exit it. I liked how you had to go into Kraid's room before you fought him to steal Speed Booster, then could fight him later once you had more stuff. That was a neat idea.

As I've mentioned in the opening post, Chozodia doesn't have much stuff changed as of now, but I will work on that once I have more spare time.
Unfortunately the number of doors I can work with per area is limited, otherwise it would've been possible to connect both sides of Ridley more :/ Maybe I will find a way to make this particular area less anoying later.
There's also the possibility to do Ridleys area first, though currently there is little reason in doing so, except maybe that Energy Tank and an earlier Varia Suit (if you don't know of the Kraid <-> Norfair shortcut).
[/spoiler]

Overall, the hack was good once I knew in full what it was expecting of me. The beginning is certainly rough and can be very frustrating, but once you start collecting items and making progress, it gets more enjoyable.  I hope that whenever the new ZM/Fusion editor is released you take a look at it and see about making a more modified (and possibly more accessible) hack. This one was fun but rough around the edges.

Thanks for playing and giving your opinion :)
I don't exactly know what the additional features of the new editor will be, though if it doesn't have groundbreaking new functions like adding more data (rooms, doors, etc.), it will usffice to work with what is there. To make interesting changes you have to work with ASM anyway, which can be fairly frustrating and time consuming. It would be nice if there would be a way to not use more memory and create an entire copy of the room everytime you save it while making only minor changes. Because the way it is now, I will probably have to rebuild everything from a clean ROM sometime in the future to use way less memory...
More modifications will definitely come when I get the time, though.

[biospark]

I don't exactly know what the additional features of the new editor will be, though if it doesn't have groundbreaking new functions like adding more data (rooms, doors, etc.), it will usffice to work with what is there.

The first release won't be able to add rooms, but you can add doors.

It would be nice if there would be a way to not use more memory and create an entire copy of the room everytime you save it while making only minor changes.

The editor automatically deletes old data and finds free space. Besides, the rom can go up to 32mb.

[Luce Seyfarth]

The first release won't be able to add rooms, but you can add doors.

Sounds good, adding some doors would definitely help a lot :)

[jaysee87]

Just finished. 7:21:13. 99%. Missing a missile pack in Ridley.

Edit: Found it. [spoiler]It's not marked on the minimap. The one by Imago entrance.[/spoiler]

[Meeptroid]

Luce, I just have a question before I maybe decide to try this hack, is the Imago a required boss? I cannot stand it as I have a natural fear of bees.

[Quietus]

There are no bees, only pixels moving on the screen. Surely you can just shoot them anyway? I can't believe you'd really avoid it for that. :^_^:

[Meeptroid]

No, they just really bug me, and the Imago is no exception. I always used the Imago skip in the original to beat the game.

[Luce Seyfarth]

Just finished. 7:21:13. 99%. Missing a missile pack in Ridley.

Edit: Found it. It's not marked on the minimap. (...)

Thanks for finding the missing mark, that was not intentional :)
Fixed it quickly, new Version can be found at the last adress I posted:

EDIT: Also changed some Energy Tanks around so you can get some earlier.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86886568/Metroid%20Other%20ZM/Metroid%20Other%20ZM.zip

Can you roughly tell me the order you got major upgrades in?

Luce, I just have a question before I maybe decide to try this hack, is the Imago a required boss? I cannot stand it as I have a natural fear of bees.

[spoiler]
Adult Imago is not required, unless it's 100% Items you want
[/spoiler]
you can also go out of your way hacking its sprite to look like a butterfly instead :P

[Meeptroid]

OK, thanks Luce, its just something that's always bugged me, and its both the sprite and the sound it makes, but if its skippable, I'm not always a 100%er

[Luce Seyfarth]

Working on a relatively big update right now (involving the zipline activator from Kraid) that will add another sequence. I hope to get finished with this next week.

[jaysee87]

Can you roughly tell me the order you got major upgrades in?

Let's see what I remember, Morph -> Missile -> Bomb -> Long Beam -> Speed Booster -> Ice Beam -> Power Grip -> Gravity -> Supers -> Wave Beam -> Hi Jump (Did a hell run with I think 4 etanks) -> Varia (even though I had killed a particular enemy a long time before that and missed a tunnel then) -> Screw Attack -> Plasma Beam -> Charge Beam -> Power Bomb -> Space Jump

I'm convinced it's possible to skip Ridley and Kraid battles now. [spoiler]I found a secret that requires power bombs that otherwise seems pointless[/spoiler].
Also,
[spoiler]I'm confused by two rooms. 1) I found 2 missile blocks and a crumble block that would make early Space Jump (I think that's the one in Ridley, I don't remember off hand) possible, but I couldn't find how to get under those missile blocks. Then the room before that, there's two random speedbooster blocks next to a bomb block on the far right side. Looks pretty pointless, or requires a random way to get speedbooster there and that's the key to early SJ.[/spoiler]

Did you know it's possible to ball spark through those shoot-through only blocks? I randomly decided to try this in Ridley area.

[Luce Seyfarth]

Okay, thanks for the sequence :)
[spoiler]
Early Gravity means you can skip Speed Booster instead in a low% run, if you like. Same applies for early Space Jump and Supers, though you will definitely need one of Speed Booster OR Super Missile.

Good work on finding the passage to skip the bosses. DId you find this with Power Grip? Do you think changing the entrance to that passage so you can't find it with Power Grip (observing your shots go through the opening) would be to hard for this skip? I myself don't think so because the player shouldn't stumble upon it by accident...
Now if you could find early Power Bomb you could skip the battles, but that's a passage I've hidden very, very well...

Those other blocks you found are indeed blocking the way to early Space Jump, but getting under there is the whole trick ;)
And no, those speed blocks the room before have nothing to do with it. They are leftovers from a previous build I actually forgot to take out -.-
[/spoiler]

Yeah, I know about ballsparking through there being possible, because I tested all methods I could think of to get through those blocks myself. I didn't see that it is possible on the lowest of those blocks in Ridley (you sparked through that one after clearing the missile block from the other side, right?), so thanks for finding that.


I will find and fix any instances of the bug you found, though submitting will take a while because I would like to get finished with what I'm doing with that zipline activator first. At least it isn't possible to break any sequences with this trick I think...

[jaysee87]

Okay, thanks for the sequence :)
[spoiler]
Early Gravity means you can skip Speed Booster instead in a low% run, if you like. Same applies for early Space Jump and Supers, though you will definitely need one of Speed Booster OR Super Missile.

Good work on finding the passage to skip the bosses. DId you find this with Power Grip? Do you think changing the entrance to that passage so you can't find it with Power Grip (observing your shots go through the opening) would be to hard for this skip? I myself don't think so because the player shouldn't stumble upon it by accident...
Now if you could find early Power Bomb you could skip the battles, but that's a passage I've hidden very, very well...

Those other blocks you found are indeed blocking the way to early Space Jump, but getting under there is the whole trick ;)
And no, those speed blocks the room before have nothing to do with it. They are leftovers from a previous build I actually forgot to take out -.-
[/spoiler]

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that major skips should be very well to extremely well hidden, especially this particular one. I was actually hoping this passage would take me to either early power bombs or early Chozodia. [spoiler] I would say a puzzle that spans multiple rooms requiring particular blocks to be destroyed then revisited from a different direction is more of an annoyance, especially if it involves other challenging/mildly annoying sequences, should be more for an optional thing than a required path. I did like the Ridley path a bit, requires knowledge on how things were laid out in the original, so things that were off seemed suspicious. Not quite sure how I feel about the covered unknown item blocks yet. I'm going to have to play through this again so I can take note of where all the power bombs are, so I know where to look. I also need to figure out what blocks guard the other side of the hidden tunnel to Plasma.[/spoiler]

Yeah, I know about ballsparking through there being possible, because I tested all methods I could think of to get through those blocks myself. I didn't see that it is possible on the lowest of those blocks in Ridley (you sparked through that one after clearing the missile block from the other side, right?), so thanks for finding that.

Yeah, I had cleared that bottom missile block already. [spoiler]After I found my first super, I went back to find all the things that were blocked with super blocks. I had speedbooster activated by the time I got back to this room, so I decided to try to ballspark through that block and it worked. I had actually gotten softlocked in Kraid's shoot through block, I did a lot bomb jumping into it and managed to clip into the floor above it.

[Luce Seyfarth]

...Okay, clipping through walls with those shoot through-only blocks is very bad :/
I've come up with an alternative though, as you can see here:


I will replace all those blocks later. They were pretty glitchy to work with anyway.

Let me know if you find early Power Bombs (or any other early... lets say "items"). I think it's hidden pretty well , so I'm interested in hearing your opinion about that.
The [spoiler]covered unknown item blocks[/spoiler] are all optional, so that I think it's no problem. When you search around at the end of the game, a Power Bomb explosion will expose those easily, provided you have the particular Item in possession.

Thanks for your opinion on the destroy missile block-puzzles.