Favorite SM hacks?

[theuprising]

Yeah I'm starting this up again because the other topic is years old and its important to keep the people just getting into Metroid hacking, like me, an idea of where to begin and where to go.

Is there a clear standout winner as the "omg most amazing hack ever" or are they all about equal level? I am currently playing through Legacy and Redesign, and its DEFINITELY a bad idea to play 2 hacks at the same time, and I may be going crazy but Redesign seems easier than Legacy.

Legacy's focus is more on puzzle solving/exploration while Redesign is bizarrely focused on platforming, but Legacy hides things in the most INSANE places, and REQUIRES you to sequence break at times to progress, for instance, getting through Norfair without the ice beam. I guess the hardest thing about Redesign other than the platforming/speed run bits which require you to use save states, is how it limits your ammo and how difficult it is to traverse the map when lost with huge FILLER environments. These are both old hacks though, I've been hearing good things about Eris, Super ZM, Ice Metal, are any of these, or any other hack better than Redesign?

What are 'yall's opinions? Thanks beforehand!

[CrAzY]

I agree that playing multiple hacks at the same time is a bad idea, as it can lead to confusion before you complete them as well as after (you don't have a solid idea of what each one did right & wrong.)

My favorite SM hacks are...
- Super Zero Mission
Wow. This one is just absolutely perfect as a hack. The re-spriting of bosses/enemies is top notch & somehow flows so well. The level design is intuitive, easy to advance & explore(good marking with tiles of "hidden" areas), nicely hidden secrets for added playability & so much more. If I had to force any average/adamant player of SM to play any hacks, it would be this one.

- Super Metroid Escape 2
The last hack I have completed. Even after completing it, I am not so happy with the color choices, but the gameplay & level design are pretty damn awesome.

- Ice Metal - Uninstall
Very very good. Love the colors/level design/gfx (not all of the gfx, some seem out of place, such as the new energy text), but other than that it is well paced & rewarding. The boost ball feels unfinished but is so fun to handle while blasting through areas that it doesn't even matter. Lots of fun.

Redesign would be on here, but the fact is that SM's physics are literally perfect to me. Other than that, it is extremely well made.

[Quietus]

The last thread is only two months old. :neutral:

[Lunaria]

Two months is too old! :pewpew:

[Quietus]

Behave yourself, or I'll attach some .bmp files. :stern:

:^_^:

[MetroidMst]

The only time a new topic on this would be applicable is if there is a deluge of new releases, which there has not been in the last two months. . . To my knowledge, nothing has come out since then. So everything mentioned in the "topic that is far too old to be useful and even makes crash feel young again" is still completely up-to-date and valid for your purposes. If anything else, bumping that topic for any further opinions would be better.

[Digital_Mantra]

I've played too many hacks to have a favorite anymore. It reaches a point where a hacks pros/cons can cancel each other out and it simply comes down to personal preference.

As for playing 2 hacks at once, that's utterly stupid. One of the main thing that drags us into a hack is the planets layout, we start to 'get it' and therefore find navigation easier.
Tossing another planet on top of that not only may make you forgetful (I'm a drunk so maybe that's just me), however it does pull you out of ones atmosphere for another.
SM Hackers would want you to experience their world unhindered. It's sorta like fast forwarding through a song or movie, or putting it on pause at length to listen/watch another.

[Jordan5]

REQUIRES you to sequence break at times to progress, for instance, getting through Norfair without the ice beam

[spoiler=ice beam]You know ice beam is just to the left of the norfair elevator right?[/spoiler]

But good hacks are: Legacy, Phazon, Super Zero Mission, Z-Factor, Life and there are other decent ones like Airy and Redesign which are fine if you don't mind the physics changes.

[theuprising]

REQUIRES you to sequence break at times to progress, for instance, getting through Norfair without the ice beam

[spoiler=ice beam]You know ice beam is just to the left of the norfair elevator right?[/spoiler]

But good hacks are: Legacy, Phazon, Super Zero Mission, Z-Factor, Life and there are other decent ones like Airy and Redesign which are fine if you don't mind the physics changes.

Yeah but you have to go through a wall and then break a random floor tile to get it, and you wouldn't know about the fake wall and there being a room right under it unless you have the area map. Which requires the power bomb. Which requires the ice beam. Which requires the power bomb. Which requires the grappling hook. Which requires the powe- oh screw it just wall jump!

[Vismund Cygnus]

best hack 2013

[MetroidMst]

Yeah but you have to go through a wall and then break a random floor tile to get it, and you wouldn't know about the fake wall and there being a room right under it unless you have the area map. Which requires the power bomb. Which requires the ice beam. Which requires the power bomb. Which requires the grappling hook. Which requires the powe- oh screw it just wall jump!

Okay, really? Really? I figured since you said Redesign was easier you hadn't actually played it beyond Ceres yet, but then you bring this gem for the whole world to look and laugh at. (No seriously, before the disappointment, I was laughing.)

Allow me to help explain things here. (Real talk now suckers) Of every single hack in existence, Legacy is the one probably 95% of hack players agree is the closest to the original in terms of difficulty. The hack is in no way, shape, or form hard. And there most definitely are not required sequence breaks. (More on that in a bit) And just to get this NEWSFLASH out of the way, every hack you've ever played and will play expects the player to know walljumping and to use it. Walljumping to an item? HAHAHAHAHAHA SEQUENCE BREAK!!11!1!!1!1! Nope. You were expected to do that. Don't think that is right? Make a hack that doesn't expect the player to know that.

Now, as for sequence breaks, this is why your previous comment is off base. It isn't a sequence break. (Mind blown!) Here is why. Hacks don't always have the same item progression as the original, they don't always have the items in the same area as the original, and they most especially are planned that way. So that means getting Screw Attack before Speed Booster isn't a sequence break in some random hack? CORRECT! (Now you're getting it.) To be a sequence break, you have break the intended sequence in that particular hack, which you haven't done, and seeing how you find Legacy so difficult, I can safely say you aren't going to do so either. If you're stuck somewhere, you go look around for things you can do, or in some cases extremely hidden paths you hadn't found before, and then you make progress. This is something that has been labeled "Exploration" and even has games labeled as "Metroidvania." (That name sounds familiar. . . Where did it come from?) Some hacks are better at guiding the player around, but generally all of them require the player to just go out and look for stuff.

TL;DR Stop being bad at hacks, walljumping is always required, Legacy is an easy hack, learn what sequence breaks are.

[Vismund Cygnus]

Walljumping to an item? HAHAHAHAHAHA SEQUENCE BREAK!!11!1!!1!1! Nope. You were expected to do that. Don't think that is right? Make a hack that doesn't expect the player to know that.

Sunshine will have no required walljumping.
#ShamelessSelfPlug

EDIT: Nevermind, Mst cleared up what he meant and I agree with him 100%.

[Lunaria]

And just to get this NEWSFLASH out of the way, every hack you've ever played and will play expects the player to know walljumping and to use it.

Ice metal was designed with special care as to make sure you could get everywhere and not become stuck if the player did not know how to wall jump. There is nothing in the hack that requires wall jumping unless you're sequence breaking... but even then it would almost be (if not entirely) impossible to get stuck in a situation where you have to walljump. (It got to a point where players were confused by various things in the hack until I explained that they were there for people who don't know how to walljump! :P)

I think you're selling the hacking community short Mst, anyone with the desire can design a hack that does not rely on certain skills, and I highly doubt my hack is the only one out there that does not require walljumping. :sun: (But fact is, I don't play many hacks.)


I think you're getting overly hostile too, Super Metroid never required wall jumping, so I think it's a fair assumption if you're new to hacks that you're not required to pull it off. (Of course, any good hack informs the players on the required skills in the read-me or in well designed level design. :P (That last part, which I should add, is something I have not seen in a single hack.))

[MetroidMst]

N/A

Code Select Expand

[08:40] <@MetroidMst> A few hacks have no required walljumping.
[08:40] <@MetroidMst> But do you expect the players to know about it and use it?
[08:40] <@MetroidMst> Or will your items be within reach if the player pulls out this unexpected move?

[Zhs2]

I would have to agree with the sentiment that [walljumping required] is kind of stupid considering the return to roots movement recently and straying back from challenge hacks. That being said, Legacy is neither a hard hack nor recent; I don't remember if walljumping is necessary, but that would be because I actually know how to walljump and the finer details of hacks tend to escape memory over time. I guess I'm really not helping anybody's point but to say that maybe, just maybe, Legacy isn't the hack for you. I liked it a lot, I'd say it's one of my favorite classic hacks of all time, but nothing is for everyone. In return, I'd say try Stardust, Oxide, Ice Metal: Uninstall, and Project Base.

[Jiffy]

Personally, Wall-kicks being required is just... I don't like it myself. Instead, most hacks need multiple routes where one is faster but requires Wall-kicks and one that is a slower route, but does not require this skill.
Back on topic, I haven't played many hacks myself, so I can't recommend some hacks for you.

[theuprising]

Yeah but you have to go through a wall and then break a random floor tile to get it, and you wouldn't know about the fake wall and there being a room right under it unless you have the area map. Which requires the power bomb. Which requires the ice beam. Which requires the power bomb. Which requires the grappling hook. Which requires the powe- oh screw it just wall jump!

Okay, really? Really? I figured since you said Redesign was easier you hadn't actually played it beyond Ceres yet, but then you bring this gem for the whole world to look and laugh at. (No seriously, before the disappointment, I was laughing.)

Allow me to help explain things here. (Real talk now suckers) Of every single hack in existence, Legacy is the one probably 95% of hack players agree is the closest to the original in terms of difficulty. The hack is in no way, shape, or form hard. And there most definitely are not required sequence breaks. (More on that in a bit) And just to get this NEWSFLASH out of the way, every hack you've ever played and will play expects the player to know walljumping and to use it. Walljumping to an item? HAHAHAHAHAHA SEQUENCE BREAK!!11!1!!1!1! Nope. You were expected to do that. Don't think that is right? Make a hack that doesn't expect the player to know that.

Now, as for sequence breaks, this is why your previous comment is off base. It isn't a sequence break. (Mind blown!) Here is why. Hacks don't always have the same item progression as the original, they don't always have the items in the same area as the original, and they most especially are planned that way. So that means getting Screw Attack before Speed Booster isn't a sequence break in some random hack? CORRECT! (Now you're getting it.) To be a sequence break, you have break the intended sequence in that particular hack, which you haven't done, and seeing how you find Legacy so difficult, I can safely say you aren't going to do so either. If you're stuck somewhere, you go look around for things you can do, or in some cases extremely hidden paths you hadn't found before, and then you make progress. This is something that has been labeled "Exploration" and even has games labeled as "Metroidvania." (That name sounds familiar. . . Where did it come from?) Some hacks are better at guiding the player around, but generally all of them require the player to just go out and look for stuff.

TL;DR Stop being bad at hacks, walljumping is always required, Legacy is an easy hack, learn what sequence breaks are.

Excuuuuse me princess, but I assumed I was sequence breaking whenever you have to use any advanced technique since this one was labeled as difficult as SM. And in SM you NEVER had to wall jump other than that area in Miridia where the little gremlin things teach you how to wall jump.

[Jiffy]

Yeah but you have to go through a wall and then break a random floor tile to get it, and you wouldn't know about the fake wall and there being a room right under it unless you have the area map. Which requires the power bomb. Which requires the ice beam. Which requires the power bomb. Which requires the grappling hook. Which requires the powe- oh screw it just wall jump!

Okay, really? Really? I figured since you said Redesign was easier you hadn't actually played it beyond Ceres yet, but then you bring this gem for the whole world to look and laugh at. (No seriously, before the disappointment, I was laughing.)

Allow me to help explain things here. (Real talk now suckers) Of every single hack in existence, Legacy is the one probably 95% of hack players agree is the closest to the original in terms of difficulty. The hack is in no way, shape, or form hard. And there most definitely are not required sequence breaks. (More on that in a bit) And just to get this NEWSFLASH out of the way, every hack you've ever played and will play expects the player to know walljumping and to use it. Walljumping to an item? HAHAHAHAHAHA SEQUENCE BREAK!!11!1!!1!1! Nope. You were expected to do that. Don't think that is right? Make a hack that doesn't expect the player to know that.

Now, as for sequence breaks, this is why your previous comment is off base. It isn't a sequence break. (Mind blown!) Here is why. Hacks don't always have the same item progression as the original, they don't always have the items in the same area as the original, and they most especially are planned that way. So that means getting Screw Attack before Speed Booster isn't a sequence break in some random hack? CORRECT! (Now you're getting it.) To be a sequence break, you have break the intended sequence in that particular hack, which you haven't done, and seeing how you find Legacy so difficult, I can safely say you aren't going to do so either. If you're stuck somewhere, you go look around for things you can do, or in some cases extremely hidden paths you hadn't found before, and then you make progress. This is something that has been labeled "Exploration" and even has games labeled as "Metroidvania." (That name sounds familiar. . . Where did it come from?) Some hacks are better at guiding the player around, but generally all of them require the player to just go out and look for stuff.

TL;DR Stop being bad at hacks, walljumping is always required, Legacy is an easy hack, learn what sequence breaks are.

Excuuuuse me princess, but I assumed I was sequence breaking whenever you have to use any advanced technique since this one was labeled as difficult as SM. And in SM you NEVER had to wall jump other than that area in Miridia where the little gremlin things teach you how to wall jump.

These "Gremlins" are called Etecoons, and it's actually in Brinstar, near the Elevator room. Just thought you should know that.

[Lunaria]

Yeah but you have to go through a wall and then break a random floor tile to get it, and you wouldn't know about the fake wall and there being a room right under it unless you have the area map. Which requires the power bomb. Which requires the ice beam. Which requires the power bomb. Which requires the grappling hook. Which requires the powe- oh screw it just wall jump!

Okay, really? Really? I figured since you said Redesign was easier you hadn't actually played it beyond Ceres yet, but then you bring this gem for the whole world to look and laugh at. (No seriously, before the disappointment, I was laughing.)

Allow me to help explain things here. (Real talk now suckers) Of every single hack in existence, Legacy is the one probably 95% of hack players agree is the closest to the original in terms of difficulty. The hack is in no way, shape, or form hard. And there most definitely are not required sequence breaks. (More on that in a bit) And just to get this NEWSFLASH out of the way, every hack you've ever played and will play expects the player to know walljumping and to use it. Walljumping to an item? HAHAHAHAHAHA SEQUENCE BREAK!!11!1!!1!1! Nope. You were expected to do that. Don't think that is right? Make a hack that doesn't expect the player to know that.

Now, as for sequence breaks, this is why your previous comment is off base. It isn't a sequence break. (Mind blown!) Here is why. Hacks don't always have the same item progression as the original, they don't always have the items in the same area as the original, and they most especially are planned that way. So that means getting Screw Attack before Speed Booster isn't a sequence break in some random hack? CORRECT! (Now you're getting it.) To be a sequence break, you have break the intended sequence in that particular hack, which you haven't done, and seeing how you find Legacy so difficult, I can safely say you aren't going to do so either. If you're stuck somewhere, you go look around for things you can do, or in some cases extremely hidden paths you hadn't found before, and then you make progress. This is something that has been labeled "Exploration" and even has games labeled as "Metroidvania." (That name sounds familiar. . . Where did it come from?) Some hacks are better at guiding the player around, but generally all of them require the player to just go out and look for stuff.

TL;DR Stop being bad at hacks, walljumping is always required, Legacy is an easy hack, learn what sequence breaks are.

Excuuuuse me princess, but I assumed I was sequence breaking whenever you have to use any advanced technique since this one was labeled as difficult as SM. And in SM you NEVER had to wall jump other than that area in Miridia where the little gremlin things teach you how to wall jump.

These "Gremlins" are called Etecoons, and it's actually in Brinstar, near the Elevator room. Just thought you should know that.

Ooooh, are we having a quote pyramid party? Can I join! :D

The etacoon room in brinstar is done right, that whole section locks the player in a very small area until they master the walljump, which is good. You don't have to get get good at wall-jumping to get out of there though, reaching the first ledge or so let's you escape the area. (And if you master it? You get a power bomb expansion!) It is, however, entirely possible to miss this entire area and beat the game without ever knowing walljumping exists! Same with a lot of hidden tricks in SM. Then there are the bug tricks, such as mockball, which furthers this even more. SM truly rewards exploring not only the planet, but ones own abilities! (Even if the cases were an accident!)

[Jordan5]

Well i can safely say that Legacy doesn't require wallljumping as it was the first hack i ever played and i couldn't even do a single wall jump (It's hard and the timing for it is a little weird when you start out, we all get that). But as you play more hacks you learn things and get better at these, even though most are rarely required for the bigger, better hacks. I couldn't even mid air morph into a tunnel when i played legacy and now i can even super short charge and blue suit (after a few attempts at least) after completing 10-12 hacks in one year. Legacy seems hard if it's your first hack as you've played SM for like 20 years and so don't remember the explorational struggles when you didn't know it inside out. Trust me, after you've played a few hacks you'll pick up things like walljumping and mockballing and be pro at it. Plus if you ever need help, MetroidMST has videos on most hacks so you can watch that to find out where to go and what to do. Or if you don't care about cheating you could look it up in smile.

I hope this helps dude, we (mostly) make hacks for people to enjoy, not rage at.

[MetroidMst]

we (mostly) make hacks for people to enjoy, not rage at.

I have no idea why you would include "mostly" in there.

have to use any advanced technique

I would suggest stopping playing hacks for the time being. Go play the original game. Learn to walljump, then come back and play hacks. With all seriousness, if you think walljumping is an advanced technique, you should wait to play any hacks. Most you won't even be able to progress in, and if Legacy gets you in a tizzy you should just stop and learn to play the game with the basic stuff down first. After that, you will get much more enjoyment out of the hacks. Until you find more "required sequence breaks."

[DonnyDonovan]

Without getting too involved in the discussion, I certainly do agree with the general idea that, if you find Legacy hard, perhaps playing hacks isn't the best idea.  I found Redesign 1000x harder than Legacy, and I think most hack players would agree.  Walljumping is far from an "advanced" technique.

[Quietus]

I've mentioned it before somewhere, but learning to wall-jump in Super Metroid isn't so much about learning the timing, but learning that there IS a timing.  In Zero Mission and Fusion, for example, you do what is obvious, in that you press away from the surface and jump.  In Super Metroid you have to press away from the surface, then leave a small delay before jumping.  With practice it becomes almost a non event, and you start chucking them in everywhere, even when you don't need to. :^_^:

It also opens the door to more advanced tricks, such as quick mid-air morphs, where you don't need to double-tap down like you normally would, but instead roll from forward to down after leaving a surface (a similar motion to when you mockball) to morph on the fly.  This trick also allows you to mid-air morph in three-tile-high gaps, which is normally next to impossible to do unassisted.

[Mon732]

If you want to practise walljumping I would reccomend getting out of Redesign's wall jump boot room. After that I was suddenly much better at wall jumping.

[Quietus]

It's true.  With Redesign forcing you into a much smaller window to perform a wall-jump, you'll find it much easier to jump in any hack with normal physics afterward