Super Metroid: Up

[FullOfFail]

@ person

well, then how would you go about the entrance? you could do like I did with Ceres and and cut the ship landing scene altogether, in the beginning. Once you disconnect ceres from the main elevator shaft and ridley and create a new elevator shaft under the ceres state, it should work. But everything else seems to work normal after that. If you go into the main ship room it'll still be raining like you just landed. I figured this out totally on accident. Not sure if it's been documented yet.

[personitis]

In reply: You're talking about how it will start? Edit the first load point on Zebes in Crateria to repoint w/e it is you'll start. Example: If I cut out the Ceres intro, I can repoint the Crateria starting point to anywhere: Norfair, Brinstar, even Tourian if I wanted.

[Eppy37]

I am actually quite intersted in playing and/or recording a run through this. Just go UP!

[Acheron]

I was actually going to make a mini-hack that did exactly this, until I saw this topic; now it'll probably go left to right or something. Derp!

Looking forward to the finished product, all the same.

[FullOfFail]

I was actually going to make a mini-hack that did exactly this, until I saw this topic; now it'll probably go left to right or something. Derp!.

You shouldn't let this stop you. The same ideas are bound to pop up here and there, we're all hacking the same game for Christ's sakes. Plus, it's the blend of all these ideas that will end up making the ultimate hack one day.

[Silver Skree]

[spoiler=Off topic]

I was actually going to make a mini-hack that did exactly this, until I saw this topic; now it'll probably go left to right or something. Derp!.

You shouldn't let this stop you. The same ideas are bound to pop up here and there, we're all hacking the same game for Christ's sakes. Plus, it's the blend of all these ideas that will end up making the ultimate hack one day.

I disagree with this. I think it's simply a gesture of respect and/or courtesy to not copy ideas too soon after they're done. I'm not saying I see this as heresy; I just think it's nice to let the person that came up with/started/publicized the idea first exercise it before doing anything of your own with it.

While I'm at it, call me a heretic, hethen or whatever, but I'm also against most physics changes.   :>_>: [/spoiler]

In any case:
It is like a quarter after 11 and I'm tired, but there's this nagging voice at the back of my head, saying, "Not good enough not good enough not good enough" and I can't sleep until I rant about it some.  :T_T:

The thing is, I've been having more and more actual moments of doubt recently that hacks like Up, or my long-term Tierus project won't be good enough. I mean, you people are throwing original tiles in a blender and dumping out pure awesome like, every day. Not to mention the custom graphics! I mean, I'm just into vanilla hacking, mostly. I have had like, 1 or 2 custom tilesets ever. How is that even supposed to compete!? Plus, the hex work. ...
I mean, what can I even say about it? It seems like every week, people around here have found some way to totally eliminate the need to work around like 5 different issues. I was blown away when I learned about level data and door repointing, and that's the most I've been doing on a regular basis.

And hacks are becoming bigger and bigger and bigger! It seems like every other good hack topic I read has the size increased by 25% or 50%! I'm not ever sure if Tierus will be as big as the original Super Metroid...

I mean, at the end of the day, I'm satisfied that it's perfect for me (obviously, dur-hurr, it's my dream hack) and plays beautifully, but I just don't know how it will be accepted here, and it's killing me.

I just want to make a fun, good-quality game, y'know?

[FullOfFail]

I disagree with this. I think it's simply a gesture of respect and/or courtesy to not copy ideas too soon after they're done. I'm not saying I see this as heresy; I just think it's nice to let the person that came up with/started/publicized the idea first exercise it before doing anything of your own with it.

But he said he had the idea too, therefor it would'nt really be copying, but a coincidence. Happens all the time. I was playing with the tile editor seen the planet and imported it into the tileset, later found out others was doing this aswell. It happens. A hack will always be unique enough that you really don't have to worry about it. Especially once you start using custom tilesets. Even if there was 50 "up" hacks, I'm sure they'd all be different enough that you wouldn't even know it.

I strongly disagree with your physics point too. For many reasons. That's what makes these hacks truely unique besides graphical changes. The standard physics are just too easy to abuse.

[Eppy37]

I think normal physics are awesome and any small change is very annoying.

imo, Graphics and looks and size don't make a good Metroid hack. It's that the idea of exploration is maintained in a hack. As long as a hack has good exploration and fn to find expansions and stuff, it is awesome.

...I suck at wording stuff

[Acheron]

Honestly, it's more that he's already started on this, and there's no reason to have two hacks with the same concept and goal when I could do something no one else is doing. I thought it was kind of funny that I came up with the idea on my own, only to see someone else did too. I've got plenty of good ideas, no need to step on toes with this one.

As far as tiling goes, it's up to you. People will generally like new graphics more, yes, but I prefer good use of old graphics to poorly-done new graphics. If you make a fun hack, people will probably play it. If you feel like you need new graphics, well, that's up to you. It is rewarding, but it takes a lot of time. It's not all that hard to do, but you have to be willing to patiently study and learn what makes for good-looking custom graphics.

If that's too much, no one would fault you from ripping stuff from a Mega Man X game or something. ;)

[Silver Skree]

Okay, sorry for the long silence, but I just thought I'd post and let you all know that it's going good, for the most part. I was careless and overwrote some critical code, though, so I'm having to do "ROM surgery," as I like to call it. Here's a list of what I'll be doing:

1) Expand both ROMs
2) Repoint Up and clean rooms to new bank. Each room should have the same pointer in both ROMs.
3) Copy bank(s) to Clean ROM with BankBuddy
4) The hell with Level_entries.txt
5) [Omitted for spoilers]
4) Open Up in hex editor. [Omitted for spoilers]. Copy hex and offset. Open Clean ROM. Save Hex to same offset
5) Export Tilesets, Tiletables, and palettes. Samus, Set 10, 12, 13, and CRE. Import all this shit into Clean ROM.
6) change item definitions for [Omitted for spoilers].
7) Open each ROM in TLP. compare & Copy [Omitted for spoilers].
8) BACKUP
9) Go through and save each room in Up to Clean Rom
10) re-tweak enemy DNA.
11) scan for any missed shit

I should be able to whisk through all that this afternoon, so Up will be back on track in no time.

Sorry I haven't posted more!

[personitis]

I'm gonna agree with Eppy. As long as the hack focuses strongly on Metroid's core aspects like exploration and good level design, it should be a great hack. Everything else is just one gigantic bonus.

As for that list of things Silver, seems like you hacking progress is "go with the flow." May I suggest a small outline or text document to remind you what you've done so major errors don't occur? :^_^:

[Silver Skree]

I'm gonna agree with Eppy. As long as the hack focuses strongly on Metroid's core aspects like exploration and good level design, it should be a great hack. Everything else is just one gigantic bonus.

As for that list of things Silver, seems like you hacking progress is "go with the flow." May I suggest a small outline or text document to remind you what you've done so major errors don't occur? :^_^:

That list IS the text file to keep up with stuff. :>_>:
I mark it off as I do it.

Also: BACKUPS

[personitis]

Yes true, backups are important.

[Scyzer]

I'm not gonna quote what you said last week, cause there's too much of it, but I've been feeling the same way about my hack.
I'm pretty sure I'm the only person working on a hack with a completely different story and ending, but I feel that everyone elses hacks are gonna be better cause they have custom GFX. I have the occasional tile that is edited to fit better, but that's it. It probably wouldn't be too hard to make custom GFX,  but I'm way to used to building with the original tilesets. And this feeling is made a whole lot worse whenever I see something by Black_Falcon or DSO. How the hell is anyone meant to compete with that?!

I spose it comes down to what you're happy with. If you think your hack is good enough, it should be good enough for everyone else. That's my opinion, but people have told me my stuff is good when I didn't like it.

[personitis]

Here's a question to consider.
Is it the fact that it's a custom tile or that it's very detailed? I feel as if I'm just being out detailed. Rebuild won't use many custom GFX but will have some moved to other sets. Like I said else where (or maybe here, not sure), details seem to be all the rage here.

[zephyrtronium]

Is it the fact that it's a custom tile or that it's very detailed? I feel as if I'm just being out detailed.

Minimalism can often be the best thing for a given situation. Simplicity might translate into sexiness.

[Silver Skree]

just a quick update: progress has been at a standstill lately because schoolfuck and I've been itching to work on Tierus instead. Also, I keep screwing up that "rom surgery" thing, so I might wind up handing it over to someone that knows what they're doing better than I do.

However, if it helps at all, Tierus has been seeing significant makeovers and cleanups thanks to a certain britfag around here.  :heheh:

[Hiroshi Mishima]

I'm sorry to hear that SM:Up is having so much trouble getting finished, I was really looking forwards to it. Also, on the topic of "not being as good" that's one of the reasons I feel very inadequate about my mini-hack that I'm doing. Otherwise I'd post about it here. I mean in this section, not in this thread.

[Silver Skree]

Ahh... I had started to get so caught up working in Tierus, I totally forgot about up! Shoot!

I any case, I'll be taking today to remake the game on a clean ROM, repointed and all. Fortunately for me, it's not that far into development, so I should be able to get it all remade if I work on it all day today. Once I have it in a clean ROM, I'll start showing progress again.

It's a good thing someone bumped this thread, or I would have forgotten about it!  :noes:

[personitis]

I'm sorry to hear that SM:Up is having so much trouble getting finished, I was really looking forwards to it. Also, on the topic of "not being as good" that's one of the reasons I feel very inadequate about my mini-hack that I'm doing. Otherwise I'd post about it here. I mean in this section, not in this thread.

Give it a stab. Critique never hurt anyone.

[Silver Skree]

[spoiler=frak yeah an screenshot][/spoiler]
:D!:

[RealRed]

Meh, multilayer tiling. That room has some serious mindfuck going on if you look at it.
pipes are in the sand, yet coming out on top of the rocks? Pipes are coming out of the rocks to hold something that looks to be in front of the rocks?

Plenty more, but I'm having trouble wording them.
The room looks quite nice, just, my brain is hurting a bit now.

[Silver Skree]

That is what I call two-dimensional depth, good sir!


EDIT:
[spoiler=In which I attempt to explain myself][/spoiler]

[Hiroshi Mishima]

Basically it's the logic from something like Super Paper Mario (which I loved the concept of). You're looking at it from the sideways perspective. If you were looking at it from the front, the rock would be rounded, not flat, meaning that the pillar is coming out of a portion of the rock that is somewhere between the front (far side) we're seeing and the side we can't see.

From a purely 2-D standpoint, it really doesn't make sense, but when you take into account the factors we can't see because we're seeing only one side, it makes perfect sense.

So in a way, you're both right.

[Silver Skree]

Alright.

So, recently I've been helping Kennon out with ROM mapping by giving him a hand with some of the more Nintendo-ish and evil banks. He seems to have a pretty good pace on his own now, though, so I'll be back to working on my own stuff.

As it is now, I'm on my Tierus shift of development, with my endless list of small bugs and tweaks, and test playing it 'till the cows come home to find said bugs/tweaks. The last thing I did in Up was give the "Red Brinstar" tileset some nice mint-green palette and built the first room using it, but as soon as I got done there I ran out of steam. I have a vague idea of how I want it to progress, but I need to let the ideas simmer for a while.

In any case, these are the last days before the second semester of my Senior year in high school kicks in, and there is NO doubt, it's going to be a living hell. I've got a semester of Math to take online, an English course to make up in night scool, 72 service hours to rack up, an ACT and SAT to prep for, and the standard grades to keep up for the school classes themselves. It's pretty bad.  :noes:

Sure enough, though, the Metroid hacking in me will persevere, and I'll SOMEHOW find time to hack. May or may not get screenies out before semester starts; I dunno. I'll be hanging around in IRC as much as possible, as usual, though.

And lastly, a preemptive Happy New Year to you all! Resolution, for me?

FUKKEN GRADUATE AND END THIS LIVING HELL CALLED SCHOOL AAAAAAAAAAAA
Also finish at least one hack. Of some kind. Maybe Tierus. Probably up sooner than later, though.
Also job. As soon as I graduate. Job job job.