Question about NTSC filter

[twipley]

Hello people,

While this isn't hack discussion as such, I find it interesting to erect the ground for such a discussion on these forums.

Concerning the current game (Super Metroid), which NTSC-filter preset do you people feel like best simulating the intended-by-developers visual feeling of authentic experience? In other words, there is for example (remember, always through "native" LCD resolution, through cvid39 DS mode) both the composite, and the RGB, presets (in ZSNES). For example, here is a pre-configured RGB-feeling (note the null bleed) video filter:

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cvidmode=39

;for LCDs, use 39 at cvidmode,
;and specify native resolution:
CustomResX=1680
CustomResY=1050

NTSCFilter=1

NTSCHue=0
NTSCSat=0
NTSCCont=0
NTSCBright=0
NTSCSharp=20
NTSCGamma=0
NTSCRes=70
NTSCArt=-100
NTSCFringe=-100
NTSCBleed=-100
NTSCWarp=0

TripleBufferWin=1
Keep4_3Ratio=1

The game distinctly feels different whether played through the composite, or through the RGB, NTSC fitler.

Please make it so that your own thoughts are being circulated in text-string form. ;)

[Quietus]

Gibberish technobabble translates as gibberish technobabble. :O_o:

As for filters (in a more general way) I always go for one of the funky looking ones, like SuperEagle, or Super2xSal.

[Parabox]

I usually run with HQ4x.

[zephyrtronium]

I think that the way the developers "intended" them to look could best be described as "as good as possible." That varies among people, but personally I don't want an NTSC filter making things dryer. I use HQ2x, because I play at 2x resolution, and I like the way it looks.

[twipley]

I realize it all seems a matter of opinion.

So what I'm saying here is, it's entirely subjective, though I do have to note that most games are probably made with the defaults in mind, as far as bleeding and dot crawl goes, since the target audience was composite-connected NTSC televisions from the 80s and early 90s.  This will also be game-by-game, though.  Some may look great with the no-loss RGB setting.

Personally, I like the RGB preset, although the composite one works as well. I may be used to less color bleed, that's all...

[gunnargumpert]

Well, I always use hq3xBold and Simple 3x together under Direct3D mode, because the edges are filtered the best with this method. It's smothing 95% of all pixels - well, doors are not fully smothed, because the "1-or-more-1-color-pixel-rows" are not existing - so the Programm can't filter the doors perfectly (filters always need a full Row, to filter it properly. Just 1 pixel is not "filterable" :^_^:). But it works good. And of corse I'm using Snes9x Rerecordings - Zsnes is ..... well, let's not debate on this.

[Hiroshi Mishima]

I don't care much for altering graphics and like the way they look in default mode. I like looking at an SNES game as if I'm playing it on an SNES.. with a controller and everything, you know? I mean, I suppose some people just don't care for pixelated goodness and like smooth lines and such. That's fine, it's just not for me.

[Quietus]

That's why I like the funky filters.  It doesn't do anything like the smoothing of the others, and ends up looking more cel-shady.

[twipley]

I don't care much for altering graphics and like the way they look in default mode. I like looking at an SNES game as if I'm playing it on an SNES.. with a controller and everything, you know? I mean, I suppose some people just don't care for pixelated goodness and like smooth lines and such. That's fine, it's just not for me.

We're on the same boat about it. I mean, basically, too, like the way graphics look in default mode. I played that way for a long time, however since I've stumbled on:

http://www.disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/gotRGB/screenshots.html
http://www.disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/gotRGB/rgb_compare.html

I've never came back to it (note that the first link features photographs, so beware of actual-picture distortions).

Anyway, I, too, prefer playing with a gamepad. Plus, NTSC filters still offers much of the "pixelated goodness." ;)


What I have built is an "entertainment system," for which one only has to plug in the power cord, plug to tv, and navigate using the gamepad. It accepts no mouse nor keyboard, and is pretty straightforward. Read shoulder buttons are used to switch games (e.g., from Super Metroid to Battle Kid (RGB there too)). Some exploration-, puzzle-, and action-based entertainment games are there also available.

The following instructions are appended to the Metroid emulation, but everything comes pre-configured so the file actually never gets read:

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extract, then run. as always, an usb gamepad is recommended. drivers are unneeded, though, as there is support neither for vibration, or for analog sticks.

for lcds, a custom resolution should be selected, and the ntsc filter duly be kept activated, so as to simulate the visual feeling of an authentic snes.

input buttons and display resolution if needed can be modified by having the read-only protection removed from the corresponding configuration files.

the read-only configuration files are, for reference (someone may find them useful), as follows:

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AutoPatch=0
DisplayInfo=0
RomInfo=0

cvidmode=39

;for LCDs, use 39 at cvidmode,
;and specify native resolution:
CustomResX=1680
CustomResY=1050

NTSCFilter=1

NTSCHue=0
NTSCSat=0
NTSCCont=0
NTSCBright=0
NTSCSharp=20
NTSCGamma=0
NTSCRes=70
NTSCArt=-100
NTSCFringe=-100
NTSCBleed=-100
NTSCWarp=0

TripleBufferWin=1
Keep4_3Ratio=1

RewindStates=0
SRAMSave5Sec=1
SRAMState=0

JoyPad1Move=1

AllowMultipleInst=0

KeySaveState=0
KeyStateSelct=0
KeyLoadState=0

KeyFastFrwrd=0
EMUPauseKey=0

KeyBGDisble0=0
KeyBGDisble1=0
KeyBGDisble2=0
KeyBGDisble3=0
KeySprDisble=0

KeyDisableSC0=0
KeyDisableSC1=0
KeyDisableSC2=0
KeyDisableSC3=0
KeyDisableSC4=0
KeyDisableSC5=0
KeyDisableSC6=0
KeyDisableSC7=0

KeyResetAll=0
KeyQuickChat=0
KeyNewGfxSwt=0
KeyWinDisble=0
KeyOffsetMSw=0

FirstTimeData=1

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pl1selk=280
pl1startk=281
pl1upk=259
pl1downk=258
pl1leftk=257
pl1rightk=256
pl1Xk=272
pl1Ak=273
pl1Lk=276
pl1Yk=275
pl1Bk=274
pl1Rk=277

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technobabble for the winner. ;)

[twipley]

It's already time for an update. Chris has published lots of new screengrabs:

http://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/rgb_compare.html
http://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/rgb_compare2.html

Chris seems to argue there are no excuses (at least in 90% of SNES and NES games) to use composite over RGB. Crisp colors, very distinct.

In other words, RGB seems to be a king of blargg's NTSC filter.

I'm sure Chris won't mind quoting him here and there for his pertinent comments:

Game artists worked on Amigas, PCs or Japanese graphics workstations, so of course they had pixel-perfect screens in front of them. They just kept the limitations of composite "in mind." [...] RGB is fantastic, and it is in no way "unfair" to play a game system in that mode. Especially when the console maker provided RGB connections out the back of the unit already.

[Qactis]

put frankly, idgaf :D. Defualt RGB filter at highest res looks the best. Filters such as Super Saiyan 2x and Super Eagle completely ruin the graphics and take away from the nostalgic feel I'm going for when playing a game this old