Truth, Misinformation, and Everything in Between

[Crashtour99]

Resurrection time again.

This vid was released by the NIA (National Inflation Association) a few days ago, and I think it'd be something worthwhile for folks to see.  Especially if you graduated recently, are currently in, or plan on going to college.  I'd especially like to hear the opinions of those who graduated from college and what their take is on the subject after watching the video.

Enjoy.

College Conspiracy

[snarfblam]

All I'm going to say is that I can't take any video, book, or article seriously if it's packed full of rhetoric, be it an argument in favor of my views or against them. Zeitgeist and College Conspiracy might make some interesting points that are very much worth considering, but when rhetoric displaces reasoning and logic, when unqualified statements build upon each other and outweigh objective facts, when statistics are given without balanced context, and when conclusions are predicated on presumption and false premises, the work invalidates any of its own merits.

I watched Zeitgeist: Moving Forward, and I was honestly bothered. Not at the beliefs and ideas, per se, but the way philosophy, assumptions, logic, and statistics are combined in a hand-waving fashion to reach a foregone conclusion that lacks legitimacy. I'm bothered because people buy into it. By all means question your premise, but don't accept the skeptical position without considering its own premise. Skepticism, in and of itself, does not validate an idea or a position.

I tried very hard to not be dismissive when watching Zeitgeist. It's not the point-of-view that I clashed with, it's the reasoning. Anybody who has watched Zeitgeist or College Conspiracy and didn't quite catch the rhetoric (it can be very easy to overlook when you're on the same page as the material), I'd encourage you to go back, watch again, and aim your skepticism at the film in question. I'm not asking anybody to discard his beliefs or even to play devil's advocate, but to question how you let others persuade you. Consider the assertions: are they validated? Consider the logic: is it thorough? Catch the presumptions and identify the fundamentals.

I'm not interested in talking politics, but I'm very interested in discussing reasoning. Good conclusions follow from sound reasoning.

[Quietus]

Agreed.  Logic and absolutes > everything else.

[squishy_ichigo]

Aww man, you're missing out on all that good stuffs in there snarf. :<

I enjoyed it. But of course, like snarf mentioned, I don't just take it for it's word because it told me all that jazz. I add it to my list of things to consider and ponder about, and what not.

I enjoy alternative thinking though, I find it to be quite fun.

[Zhs2]

It presents a number of interesting facts, and the facts are really all you should be listening to whether it has fancy language, bias, or any of the above. Why would anyone let the presentation of a fact jade their interpretation of the situation? :awesome:

[snarfblam]

Zeke, I'm getting the impression that you've completely misunderstood me. My problem isn't with the presentation. It's with the actual content. As far as my alleged lack of objectivity... I'm not sure how to approach that. All I can do is ask you to re-read my post. I've already said it the best I can.

[Zhs2]

All I'm saying is that, sure, they might provide some interesting statistics with their skeptical views and interesting facts, and I agree with you on the point that all they are sharing is a point of view, but there's not really a whole lot you can do about the people who want to consider it true or false. They've formulated their own opinions, and so have you. Anything beyond that is thrusting your own opinion and being mad at the people who probably aren't smart enough to think for themselves when watching a documentary. I thought the awesome face would be a good indicator of present sarcasm, but there's the "Law of No Sarcasm" being proven on the internutz yet again.

Speaking of formulating your own opinions on things and breaking past the propaganda the people are trying to feed you, here's the one documentary I found particularly interesting very recently, and the one I've admittedly watched all the way through because it was a whole hell of a lot more light-hearted than these heavy-handed conspiracy videos:

Fat Head

The common subject is "the obesity epidemic" and the apparent influence people in a high position have had making more money off of people being ignorant than people being educated, despite the fact that consumer choice is what keeps fast food, a somewhat healthier substance than most whole grains, in business these days. Discuss.

[Digital_Mantra]

Athene's Theory of Everything

[snarfblam]

...there's not really a whole lot you can do about the people who want to consider it true or false. They've formulated their own opinions, and so have you. Anything beyond that is thrusting your own opinion and being mad at the people who probably aren't smart enough to think for themselves when watching a documentary.

Is persuading people outside the scope of this topic? Understand that I'm not pushing my own beliefs here.

It was Zeitgeist in particular that prompted my post because it was pulled off incredibly well, but I think my point applies equally to any discussion (or monologue). If you aren't thinking critically when you watch it, you aren't going to catch the false premises and bad logic. I don't get the presumption that I'm coming from a place of anger and arrogance. Don't mistake my solemn tone for rage. All I'm saying is stop for a moment and really question something before you incorporate it into your beliefs.

Maybe my post was too long, and maybe that distracted from the actual point. Feel free to disregard anything else I've said in this topic. This is all I really want to say:

I'm not asking anybody to discard his beliefs or even to play devil's advocate, but to question how you let others persuade you. Consider the assertions: are they validated? Consider the logic: is it thorough? Catch the presumptions and identify the fundamentals.

[Zhs2]

What I'm saying is "good luck getting everyone to do that." It is good advice and often common sense to question things from a logical standpoint, but I'm still playing devil's advocate anyway because you can't make everyone smart.

[Quietus]

And that's the main reason that the human race had reached an evolutionary standstill.  Too many people are happy in their ignorant bliss, and don't even entertain the notion of bettering themselves.  We're so caught up in sating our every pleasure that money is the overriding factor in everything we do, and until such things change, we'll be stuck.

[Crashtour99]

Athene's Theory of Everything video:
The first half dealing with identity, consciousness, and cognitive neuroscience is right on the money.  The second half dealing with physics has some pseudoscience in it though and while it has some great information, it should be taken with a grain of salt how they string it all together (I discussed it with some folks I know who are actively studying physics, and I'm more apt to take their opinion over a youtube video).  A great vid and worth watching none the less and very thought provoking.

Fat Head video:
A fun watch, entertaining, and informative.  There was a lot I already knew about presented there, but there was also a lot that I didn't.  Definitely warrants further investigation and I can say that at least for me, it's helped inspire me to take a more active role in my own health and paying attention to what I eat.

[Digital_Mantra]

Fat Head was really interesting towards the end. It made something click in my mind.
When I was 15 I was 280lbs. I tried a high protein no carb diet. I lost 80lbs in around a year.
Since then I've been coasting between 190-230lbs. And I've done many different diets since,
low cal starving, fasting, less meat more veggies, and I don't notice much happening.

I always thought my aunt was weird (she suggested the meaty diet when I was a kid),
for instance I'd see bacon fat in the pan and think 'time to wash that out',
and she'd stop me and say it's great for cooking.

I've seen other documentaries that discuss our brains evolution through protein and animal fat.
If it's true that the agricultural era made us shorter, fatter, tooth disease, etc, and we've been
evolving for millions of years on eating animals.. then that's something to think about.
I've been trying to avoid breads/wheat for a few months now,
I think I'll just not have them and see what happens.

[Quietus]

Whenever I try to lose any weight, it's never the meals themselves that are the problem.  It's the bucketloads of shite I cram in between meals that was all adding up.  Simply cutting that out made the world of difference.  Outside of that, the biggest, and most often overlooked change is always activity.  I went through years of getting home from work, and spending all evening in one chair or another.  Getting off my arse was the easiest change to make.  I lost more weight, got fit very quickly, and felt much less down and moody.  It's such a shame that most people's first choice is always 'diet', rather than simply burning off more calories.  A societal thing, I guess: You want to lose wait? Diet.  Shameful.

[Digital_Mantra]

I probably should have mentioned that I walk 1-2 hours a day and lift weights weekly.
No doubt that was likely the biggest factor and not what I was eating.
But both go hand in hand. I'd just like to get the best results.

[Quietus]

Yeah, I just find it a little bewildering that so many people seem to miss the very obvious: Burn off more calories than you're taking in.

[Crashtour99]

Not to justify laziness or anything, but it's important to have the right diet if you're going to be working out.  There's a lot more to it than just calories in vs. calories out.

Think of it this way:  Why do body builders have such high protein and high calorie diets?  Well, not only do they need the protein to help build muscle, but the proteins themselves are metabolized to produce energy.  When it comes to energy sources, the body first goes for sugar, then protein, then fat.
If you have a high carb, low protein/fat diet and greedy fat cells, your body is more likely to take protein from your muscles to use as fuel during stress/exercise.

There was once that I was really sick in hospital, and looking back I can see why the effects were what they were.  [spoiler]For 3 days I literally couldn't keep any food in me and ended up loosing 15 lbs. of muscle (not fat) because that was the most readily available thing my body had to use for fuel (to keep me alive and fight off the illness).  All those carbs in my diet had made my greedy fat cells extremely stingy, even when I was sick.  (This isn't meant as pathos rhetoric or to garner sympathy, it is simply a personal anecdote of the extreme lengths the human body will go to when deprived of what it needs when it needs it.  Try to imagine what 15 lbs. of beef looks like, and burning all that off in 3 days.  YIKES!)[/spoiler]

If you aren't fueling your body properly, then all those calories you burn will be from the wrong places.  So basically you have to get your diet and blood sugar / fat cells back in order before any decent exercise, otherwise you'll be doing yourself more harm than good.

[Quietus]

Yeah, I understand that, but my comments were aimed more at those that don't see the importance of burning (any!) calories off through exercise.  See my comment before the last one.  The thing that I see most often is that people want to lose weight, and the first thing they do is eat less, or change what they're eating, when the truth is often the case that they just need to get a little exercise to tip the balance back in their favour.

The other problem with the ehole diet idea is that people read too specifically into the figures.  Most people will decide that they're looking to lose weight, and will read that (for example) a woman is supposed to have 2,000 calories a day.  Then they try and religiously stick to that number, but they fail to realise that the idea of a 2,000 calorie diet is targeted toward a normal, healthy, active lifestyle, and is not aimed at those that do nothing but sit on their arse all day.  Therefore, by sticking to 2,000 calories a day, they're still overdoing the intake, and missing the balance.

If these people took half the time they spend sticking to these fad diets, and used it trying to understand how they will lose the weight, they'd all be better off.

[Crashtour99]

Ahhh, I see what you were saying now.  And some very excellent points.  It really is quite ridiculous to think that everyone should be eating 2,000 calories a day regardless of metabolism and activity level.  haha  Makes me wish people would do a little more self experimentation to find out what their bodies need (diet and exercise) and stick to that instead of some prescribed formula from a government agency or health guru.

I've personally found that cutting out all the soda and sugary drinks can make a huge difference by itself.  That includes fruit juice, nature packs that shit in fiber for a reason ya know.  lol

[Quietus]

I have to agree.  It was one of the easiest changes I made, and I too noticed the difference almost immediately.  I now drink water almost exclusively.

[Silver Skree]

Lift weights > build muscle > muscle burns fat > less dead weight > more gained from aerobics

...:D

[snarfblam]

Step 1: High metabolism
Step 2: Profit

Of course, my formula for success doesn't take cardiovascular health into consideration, and my plan is bound to fail when I get older. I'll just keep shoving cheese-burgers and pizza in my face and deal with the blood pressure and heart problems later.

[Crashtour99]

Season of Treason Full

And here it is kiddies, everything that no one ever told you about government operations and how we ended up like this in the first place.  Why does it seem like your votes don't matter?  Why can't you escape from things like an unconstitutional income tax?  Why do corporations hold more power than the people?  It's all in there.  I swear, listening to this guy I had so many "ah-hah" epiphany moments it was truly shocking.  And what's worse, is that WE THE PEOPLE are all responsible for every bit of this by being willingly complicit in the system.

If we all opt-out of government, there won't be a government to cause problems anymore.

[Zhs2]

It's all about the Monkeysphere, yo.

As long as everybody gets their own bananas and shares with the few in their Monkeysphere, the system will thrive even though nobody is even trying to make the system thrive. This is perhaps how Ayn Rand would have put it, had she not been such a hateful bitch.

[squishy_ichigo]

The Obama Deception HQ Full length version

A little dated, but still highly relevant.
Talks about the Bilderberg group, New World Order, Obama, etc. About 2 hours long.