"The" Conspiracy?

[squishy_ichigo]

ok... so here goes.

It all started with work.  They play the same damn songs everyday, and they get stuck in you head, you know? And a few people I work with really liked Lady Gaga, so I gave her a chance, and she turned out to be quite pleasant to listen to.  Sad story, as I heard she was quite a weirdo.  So, I youtube some of her videos, and sure enough, she is quite odd.  But wait... something is fishy about all this... There has to be a secret meaning in all of her recent videos.

So I google it, and wind up on this site: http://vigilantcitizen.com/ and learn QUITE alot about her videos, and what they actually portray.  With that, I came to respect her as an artist, thinking it was quite edgy... and started listening to more and more of her songs.  But then I started reading the other articles on the site...

And now I'm hooked... its all quite mysterious you know... if it all really does exist, I worry about the future...  It makes my small, insignificant problems seem meaningless now.

Some say its all a conspiracy, and they might be right. But I'm a man of science, of facts.  And there are ALOT of "coincidences" if all this isn't true....

So now, I throw the ball in your court metconst.  Read these articles and tell me what you think.  I crave your opinions.

[Digital_Mantra]

I logged on in the midst of going to sleep simply to say lol.

[Quietus]

It smacks of reading waaay too much into things to me...  Looking for meaning where there is none - that sort of thing.

[Lunaria]

Fact: Most song lyrics are just made up to sound good for one reason or the other, regardless if the content or the author agrees with it.

[Phazar]

Fact: Most song lyrics are just made up to sound good for one reason or the other, regardless if the content or the author agrees with it.

...And this, folks, is why I like musicians/bands who express their own views in the music while at the same time making it "sound good".

[squishy_ichigo]

Ok, riddle me this Batman:

Lady Gaga's song's are very upbeat, and great for dancing to.  Listening to them at face value (which most people do) you would never think she would have videos like the ones she pushes out.

Let us take Telephone for an example.  The lyrics are "about" a girl not picking up her phone from her boyfriend while she's at a club having fun dancing.  The video has nothing to do with this whats-so-ever.  Instead, it is riddled with things like: a jail scene, poisoning people, escaping from the police, etc.  If you were to take it at face value, these things have NOTHING to do with the song at all.  Nothing.  But if you look at it from the "conspiracy" point of view, it makes a whole lot more sense.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=3423

This is true about almost all of her videos.

This leaves us with a few options. 
1) She is batshit crazy, and the ONLY way her videos make any sense whats-so-ever, is if you use an occult pov
2) She is ingenious, and uses these symbols purposefully to make people think somethings going on to keep them hooked
3) She is a puppet of the Illuminati, etc

So Batman, which one is it?  Like I said before, there is ALOT of "coincidences" if all this isn't true.... 
Please read the article before commenting.

Even with Gaga not in the picture, there is alot of other stuff on that site that points to the occult, which I will discuss later granted this actually becomes a discussion.

[Crashtour99]

Well, all I can say is that, as an occultist who has been studying for the last 13 years, and a practitioner of Chaos Magic for the last 4 years, I'm not seeing anything on that site that has any credibility at all.  It's all seems like a bunch of paranoid "conspiracy theorists" immersed in myths and deception.

Personally I see it as a personal expression of art.  There's a difference between symbolism in art and occult symbolism in art.  For an example, look at the differences between Lady Gaga (who's visual art is indeed very strange) and Tool (self admitted ceremonial magicians who's lyrics indeed reveal this).

[spoiler]Lateralus Lyrics

Black and white are all I see in my infancy.
Red and yellow then came to be,
reaching out to me, lets me see.
As below so above and beyond I imagine,
drawn beyond the lines of reason.
Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

Over thinking, over analyzing,
separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines.

Black and white are all I see in my infancy.
Red and yellow then came to be,
reaching out to me, lets me see.
There is so much more and it beckons me to look though to these,
infinite possibilities.
As below so above and beyond I imagine,
drawn outside the lines of reason.
Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

Over thinking, over analyzing,
separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, leaving opportunities behind.


Feed my will to feel this moment, urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.

I embrace my desire to...
I embrace my desire to...
feel the rhythm,
to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow,
to feel inspired,
to fathom the power,
to witness the beauty,
to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral,
to swing on the spiral,
to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human.

With my feet upon the ground,
I move myself between the sounds and open wide to suck it in.
I feel it move across my skin.
I'm reaching up and reaching out.
I'm reaching for the random or whatever will bewilder me,
whatever will bewilder me.

And following our will and wind,
we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.[/spoiler]

[squishy_ichigo]

[spoiler=quote from wiki]The word occult comes from the Latin word occultus  (clandestine, hidden, secret), referring to "knowledge of the hidden".  In the medical sense it is used to refer to a structure or process that is hidden, e.g. an "occult bleed"  may be one detected indirectly by the presence of otherwise unexplained anaemia.

The word has many uses in the English language, popularly meaning "knowledge of the paranormal", as opposed to "knowledge of the measurable", usually referred to as science. The term is sometimes popularly taken to mean "knowledge meant only for certain people" or "knowledge that must be kept hidden", but for most practicing occultists it is simply the study of a deeper spiritual reality that extends beyond pure reason and the physical sciences. The terms esoteric and arcane can have a very similar meaning, and the three terms are often interchangeable.

The term occult is also used as a label given to a number of magical organizations or orders, the teachings and practices taught by them, and to a large body of current and historical literature and spiritual philosophy related to this subject.[/spoiler]

tl;dr
The word occult itself is used to describe a hidden society.  This would imply (at least to me) that more then one would exist.

This particular one revolving around the Freemasons, and the Illuminati.

I'm not going to claim that I know more about the occult then you, as it would be a lie.  I'd love to hear your opinions on the matter, as this is an open discussion.

edit: to touch on one of your points:

Personally I see it as a personal expression of art. 

It is mentioned several times, that these symbols are not just found in Lady Gaga's videos, but more and more in other videos by other musicians.  She shows them off alittle... louder, but they apparently are popping up all over the place.  Now, this could very well be a marketing scheme, who knows?

I brought this topic of discussion up, not because I truely believe in it, but because I was intrigued by it.  I'd love to hear the different sides of the coin.

[Crashtour99]

Really all of those definitions are somewhat accurate, since "occult" is an umbrella term and covers a wide variety of stuff.

About the Illuminati and Masons though, this really dates back to about the 1700's when there were a lot of secret societies forming.  These societies were secret because at the time the majority of leaders in Europe and other places in the world were hard core Christian Monarchs with tyrannical laws and such.  Most of these societies were based around freedom and social reform, and are the roots of the more modern forms of anarchy, communism, socialism, etc. as well as spiritual freedoms and free thinking in the forms of atheism and deism. 

The Illuminati and Masons specifically were more of a fraternal brotherhood devoted to free thinking and personal freedom.  Around the late 1700's many governments began cracking down on secret societies like these and for the most part they all fell apart (aside from a few pockets of devoted members).  Later on when the people of those countries finally had enough and started crawling out from under the hand of despotism, some of those groups reformed and had a hand in some of the social reforms that took place.  Freemasonry is one of those groups (though there is no evidence that the Illuminati did).

Today Freemasonry is going fairly strong and there are a number of lodges out there, including the Shriners who do a heck of a lot of good for a lot of people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Arabic_Order_of_the_Nobles_of_the_Mystic_Shrine

The only bad thing is that because of their roots in secret societies there is a whole mythology that developed around them.  And then you have people like David Icke who believe that the Illuminati are a group of lizard people from outer space and control all the world governments and are setting up a "New world order".  LMAO

Now, I don't discount a "New world order" by any means, but I think it's more an effect of governmental, economic, and social interdependence than a sinister group of masterminds seeking world domination.



As for the music videos and such, I see it as the pop culture industry taking advantage of a set of symbols that are currently an "undercurrent" or sorts in American society, and perhaps society at large in the world.  Right now people are upset with the government and large corporations for screwing up the economy, and with "big brother" and the police state seeming like they are just around the corner people are worried.  They are symbols that everyone recognizes on one level or another, and I think these "artists" are taking advantage of that to boost the viewing and listening of their "art".

A lot of this is largely just my opinion though.  LOL  So keep that in mind.

[Lunaria]

So a music video have nothing to do with the song at all? Kinda like, you know, EVERY OTHER MUSIC VIDEO OUT THERE!

Yes, makes perfect sense, it must have some deep hidden meaning that symbolizes something DARK!

[squishy_ichigo]

Lizard people... heh
Yeah, that site doesn't talk about that at all, but I've heard it at a different source and was like... wtf?

And I knew everything that you said Crashtour99, as I have been doing as much research into this as possible lately. :D
I find it quite fascinating, and when you find something as interesting as this is to me, its hard to just stop.

Crys: If anything, your comment only continues to develop the opinion that I've stated before, rather then help out yours.... Just throwing that out there.

[Digital_Mantra]

I remember reading somewhere that the Song 'Lateralus' refers to the Fibonacci Sequence.
Which well explains the spiral going off the chart, and are we ready to take it that far.
Also, the way Maynard sings in the beginning follows the Fibonacci Numbers perfectly.
The main riff's time signature is also the 16th step of the Fibonacci Sequence.

Now I feel like listening to that album again..

[Quietus]

Having read the article, I still stand by my original statement, in that if you look hard enough for something, you'll find it.

It depends on your viewpoints in life.  One of the most obvious examples I can think of would be the cross and pentagram in Christian belief systems.  To me, the cross is just twointersecting lines, resulting in a cruciform appearance, and the pentagram is just a star in a circle.  Pretty much just geometric shapes.  However, believers will associate these with Christ and Satan respectively.  But that's only because that's what they have been taught.  In other religions / belief systems, they mean completely different things.  The pentagram for example is thought to have been deliberatley demonised by Christians, to steer people with pagan beliefs away from their beliefs, changing the pentagram from a very holy symbol, to something related to the devil.  It worked, and even today most people you ask would (even if jokingly) associate it with some form of devil worship.