Fun Poking

[squishy_ichigo]

[spoiler=longish backstory of why I made this topic]So, its come to my attention, that something I said that wasn't meant to offend someone very much did offend them. I won't name names, and if that person wants to come out and discuss that contents of our discussion, feel free to. But it got me thinking about the way I have been acting on the internet as of late.

Some history for people who may not know me, I was once a Mod on this forum and have multiple times in the past gotten quite upset with the way that people behave in this community (not specifically on the forums, its pretty ok on here, moreso specifically on #metconst) and ragequit for long periods of time because of it. Over the years, I have become more apathetic to it, and brush off most of it nowadays, but that has also put me in a position where I am saying things that offend people. Look, I don't go out of my way to say mean spirited things to piss people off (well, unless I think they have done something particularly bad, in which case I might), I poke fun at people in good fun, when I think they are being silly. I know perfectly well that the things people say can hurt others, and yet I've carelessly done it anyways.

Some would say that a certain level of 'thick skin' is necessary to be on the internet, and I have grown mine over the years. Is this a fair statement to make? That's debatable, and feel free to discuss that if you want.  I personally enjoy poking a little fun at people, nothing to bad, just a little poke. It's one of the few ways I can find to actually socialize with people anymore, as otherwise I would probably just not say much of anything at all, and now I'm on the fence on wither or not I want to continue doing it at all in a public space. I've had a few people in the last few years who saw that I was changing, and they told me that they 'liked the old squishy better'. Well, let me tell you, the old squishy was an easy target, who got upset WAAAAAY to easily about things, and was an emotional wreak half the time. Does that make it ok? Maybe not, but people change.[/spoiler]

Now, this topic is to discuss the art of poking fun, and to discuss when is it going to far, and should people even make jokes in the first place.

[Zhs2]

Welcome to the controversial wedge of my administration. On the side with the ladder you have a bunch of assholes who may not necessarily be intelligent, but they know how to differentiate between scorn, sarcasm, and whether or not people are actually legitimately being pissed at them... Or are completely immune to such things. On the other slippery, greasy slope is where people who can't take it because they're whiny baby children men stoop, and generally this side represents not here. Over the years I've generally gone for convincing the latter group to climb that ladder and get the fuck out of here because I'd prefer one over the other - not always, but generally usually because the people who can take it are usually more mature, rational, thinking, and possessing of the ability to take a joke. For the remainder of problematics, there is bannination. :colonrightv:

To me, offense in general is just like that wedge. Once people start taking offense, they're traveling down a slippery slope that's hard to come back from. The terrible part about that is that these people need to save themselves from that line of thinking, and helping people to convince themselves of the right way of thinking can be quite a task. All you can necessarily do is continue to be yourself and not baby people, but instead help them develop their ability to live in real life one thorn at a time. How else will they grow up? On a completely related note, this is why I think most Trump decriers are just plain hilarious.

Note that I am not saying it is prudent to be a jerk just to be a jerk; the lesson to take away here is, if the subject of offense comes up, think twice about whether or not you should apologize. If it's a matter of stepping out of your bounds of taste, then maybe it's a good idea, but on the other hand people can get really irritated about some of the dumbest shit you have no control over. Don't treat those people like they're something special - they're human just like you, and if you can deal with it, they should too.

[Quietus]

I think that time in any community online is much like spending time with real world friends. You get on fine, you hang out, you naturally gravitate towards some more that others, and sometimes one of them is going to say or do something that's going to piss you off, but, much like those real world friends, it's unlikely there's any real malice there, and things get forgotten, and people forgiven. Anybody taking it more seriously than this is setting themselves up for a fall. Poking fun at each other is a natural part of any close relationship, but if the recipient clearly doesn't seem amused (or worse - clearly unamused or upset), then the joke should cease.

I also think that it's when we get close to people that we are often more upset by them saying something that may not hurt if it came from a stranger. Perhaps we should consider what they say a little more deeply when they criticise us? It's not them saying that you're an ass because they are looking to piss you off - it's their way of saying that it's because you're good friends that they feel they can be honest with you, and what you did was perhaps out of line.

[personitis]

and should people even make jokes in the first place.

What are you, some anti-fun idiot? :razz:

There's nothing wrong with taking jabs at someone or their choices, but it should be considered who your directing it toward and the demeanor of which you're going to come off as, which can be hard to tell as that will mostly be left up to the person in topic. I'm a rather quiet individual who feels small talk is just a waste of time, especially if I'm working astutely on something. I may take some stabs at a friend while I'm relaxing, but in no way will I do such to a random in public (unless it seems it can brighten up their day a bit). I'd rather be more direct with those people as you never know how volatile someone you've never met before can be and if the following response will be worth your while.

As for whether jokes should be made to begin with, it'd be a good idea to split "poking fun" away into a category of inside jokes which may explain why some people lash out when a joke is based on them. Wrapping back around to what Zeke said, those people are only feeding into their own negativity mostly, but you can't account for the tolerance everyone has toward the amount of bullshit they can take in a day. That said, there are people who can normally roll with the punches but just won't tolerate such remarks after a certain point and would rather shut themselves away for the day.

Conversation on shared hobbies, thought provoking conversations, or discussion of semantics are more rewarding than jokes I personally find.

[Grimlock]

Ok, this fun poking epidemic is getting out of hand people!!! In order to solve this issue I call upon the leaders of Metroid construction to protect the delicate retinas that are being ravaged by crass, heartless, tactless, text characters displayed within these forums:

A new sub-community is in order:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Alternatively we could protect people from the text by making it the same color as the background!

[squishy_ichigo]

Idk, this whole trend towards 'safe spaces' and being 'PC' lately seems to only be making people who do joke around even more diskish lately, just to get under those people's skin, and I feel like internet culture has made me into more of an asshole than I would like. Extremism is everywhere these days, and it just seems to feed into the whole problem.

Like, I get what being on the other side of 'verbal abuse' is like, I've been dealing with that my whole life really. I'm not trying to discredit a person who gets upset about something, because they gotta deal with it nonstop everywhere they look, especially in the last few years with the internet meshing into society and the way we communicate with people. That kind of shit can make you want to kill yourself.

I certainly get what you guys are saying too though. It's just a big fucking mess. You can't please everyone, so it just makes me not even want to bother with some people anymore.

Like, I don't even expect anyone on the other side of the conversation to even say anything, because people have a tendency to jump down their throats so why even bother.

[squishy_ichigo]

[spoiler=double post rules are to prevent spam]
Ok. More getting stuff off my chest I guess. So I was sitting here, reading stuff on the internet related to lolicon and laughing at how people overreact about it, and got introspective about my behavior again. Really, I think a lot of my 'problem' is my total dissociation from things. I've become more and more apathetic to certain things over the years as a sort of 'survival mechanism' if you will. But this isn't the full story, and is why I can come across as a real fuckwad at times when people can't tell when I am joking about things.

Look, I have morals. I think any halfway decent person should. Don't have morals? Well, you're probably a degenerate piece of shit, but its ok, no need to get offended by that, you don't have any morals so it's not offensive, right? :^) But despite this, I am a largely amoral person in a lot of situations these days. It's difficult to care about things on a large scale when there is nothing you can do about it. Planes crashed into various buildings in NYC? lul, sucks to be them! Now does that comment mean I am giving a salute of approval to terrorism? Or that I don't understand how emotional and awful the situation is? Or any other dumb thing someone might want to throw in my face because they get buttmad about shit that doesn't conform to the way they view the world?

When I'm being serious about something, I try and come at things from both sides, and try and understand the entire picture as best I can. I have changed my views on a number of things over the years by doing this, and I think more people could really learn to try and do it more. I could take any number of different topics and discuss them, but since the topic that made me write this is lolicon, I'll just discuss that for now, and try and be as fair to both sides of the argument as I can.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=tl;dr, I talk about moral-questionable-thing that is all but certainly going to #trigger someone because they don't agree with me]
Now, lolicon is a pretty big deal. It's practically pedophilia, and for some people, it's literally that. Now to go off on a tangent, stay with me, I'll get back to lolicon, this shit is relevant. Morally, I do not condone rape. Morally, I do condone victimless crimes. But then you get into this very grey area, statutory rape. Just a quick biology and history lesson for people (if I get anything wrong do feel free to correct me), girls start menstruating when they get to the age they are biologically able to have children. Girls were having sex at young ages pretty much the majority of the history of our species. Now, look, I get it. Times are different now, and laws are put in place to protect the victimization of women from predatory men, which lets be honest, happens all to frequently. But at what point is consent considered relevant? In a good deal of the western world, you really aren't allowed to legally consent to fuckall until you are at the rather arbitrary age of 18. Does a human being start being any more or less capable of making decisions for themselves at 18? I'd argue no. But rather than teach our children how to be good at making decisions and giving them enough information so they are capable of doing it, we hold their hands and then throw them into the 'real world' and hope for the best. At what age is the best age to start discussing sexual topics with kids? I have no fucking clue, but honestly I think we do it a bit late in America, and the education is quite lacking. We don't let children consent to sex because we don't want them to be victimized by it, which is understandable to a point. But it seems a bit overboard. I am pretty disgusted when I heard stories about two teenagers having sex and the boy gets sent to jail (or some equivalent) even though it was consensual. And now this kid is labeled a sex offender the rest of his life? Seriously?

Now then, getting all of that 3D shit out of the way, we can finally talk about 2D girls (when I say 3D I am talking about real life, and when I say 2D I am referring to anime, terminology yay). Lolicon, for those who are unaware because you aren't weeaboo trash, is essentially being attracted to underaged anime girls. Now, this isn't always sexual, but for this discussion, I will be focusing on the sexual side of it, because really when a person says lolicon that's what they are referring to usually. Images of sexually explicit 2D girls are not directly hurting anyone, unlike images of 3D girls which requires you to actually take a real underaged girl, sit her down, and do shit to her. This ALONE is a massive difference between lolicon and what is usually referred to as child pornography (CP). The victimizing of children in CP is one of the single biggest reasons that CP is illegal. I am /not/ going to defend CP here, I do not condone the victimizing of children, just for the record. Now, lets be honest with ourselves. There is a difference between fantasy and reality. Condemning something that is a fantasy just because you are worried that person will go too far and start doing shit in reality feels like its going too far. I do NOT like the idea of thought police, thank you very much. That being said, of course there are some people who do end up blurring the lines, people who can't tell the difference have a problem, and probably need to seek medical attention.

Now, lolicon is basically pedophilia, and here we start getting into some deeper moral problems. Pedophilia is typically used to describe prepubescent attraction (ie, before they start menstruating as I mentioned above), which /does/ go against the biological functions of our reproductive systems. Why would a person become attracted to girls of such a young age? I'm not a scientist, but from what I hear, its usually because they find the innocence of children to be sexual attractive. The biggest problem, as far as I can tell anyways, that people have against lolicon (beyond just disgust because they don't understand it), is worrying that it will turn people into real world pedophiles who victimize real children. But, really, if you think about it, the opposite is also true. A person who /is/ a pedophile could use lolicon as a way of living out their fantasy without actually victimizing anyone. It's a slippery slope, I understand that.

There is a certain level to this that I will simply not defend. Please, do not think I am giving blanket condonement of these kinds of things. Each case is unique, and details matter.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=do you really think I'm gonna read all of this? lolol!!!1!1]
You might be wondering how any of that has to do with how I act. It was just an example of the complexity of my moral code, and I was explaining it so I could go back to the original thing that made me make this topic. So I recently came across a youtuber by the name of Nyanners when I stumbled upon her 'The Nutshack Theme But Sung By A Chorus Of Cute Anime Girls'. I find her videos pretty funny, but then find out about some controversy that she had in the past. She had a very popular video in which she is making light of lolicon by singing a silly song, but then took it down and people got mad about it. This comment sums it up pretty well: https://snag.gy/sOAYvq.jpg . I found her comment pretty amusing, and can see why people get mad at her. But at the same time, I understand where she is coming from. Which is why I come across as an asshole, because rather than swinging in on my noble white stead and slaying all the dark knights in the name of social justice I just sit in the back and watch it happen. And sometimes even stir the pot in the name of tehlulz. And honestly, I only find it more amusing when people (sorry slypork, gonna throw you under the bus here for a second, do feel free to defend yourself on this one if I get anything wrong) get buttmad enough to talk shit about my topics without actually reading them and understanding what I am saying. I feel my previous comments in this thread cover enough ground here, and I don't want to repeat myself like a tool.
[/spoiler]
I worry that I'm gonna end up rage-quitting this community again because people don't appreciate my humor and I don't enjoy offending people with jokes they don't want to hear. Will I get to 1000 posts? Stay tuned for the next episode! [insert obligatory image of meme here]

[Lunaria]

I think a large problem is that large chunks of the web have kinda devolved into a contest of who can give the least amounts of shit about anything. (Although they care a lot about not caring, controversially).

It's naturally to care about things that matters to you, and yeah, sure, I can buy that some people care more about certain things than they perhaps should. But I think it's more pretentious to propose that no one should care about something just because oneself does not.

Also squish, honestly, even if people get worked up about something if they are at least halfway reasonable you can clear things up by talking to them. So no sense sitting around and being moody about it if can/has been resolved, or if it's out of your hands then there is no reason to be bothered about it either. :pewpew:

[ProjectXIX]

The whole "lolis is basically CP!" shit is the same garbage people were repeating years ago about violent video games creating serial killers and mass murderers. I haven't seen anything like that in quite a while, and I think the only reason this loli shit has gone as long as it has is because it strikes a different, more sinister nerve. People joke about death all the time, but joking about child abuse? Better put a nice big skull on your hat and a swastika on your shoulder, because you're now a nazi!

Now, as for the things relating to America, sexual education is a joke. Literally. I didn't get any sexual education classes until I was in 6th grade and then again in 7th, well past the point I was already getting my sin on to whatever I could find on the internet. Sexual education has no place in a school setting, especially at that age. Nothing is actually covered by sexual education classes, unless they've got their shit together in the last 10 years, because they seemingly want it all explained through the kids asking questions. God forbid an education class actually teach somebody something, no, that's not what the parents want, which is why they don't do it themselves (I'll get to that in a minute). Sexual education in America is honestly a class for entertainment disguised as education, nobody I knew took it seriously. The questions kids do actually ask have to be written down, given to whoevers in charge of the thing, and then answered anonymously, otherwise you'll be ridiculed by everybody else.

Now, on the topic of parents actually doing their job and parenting, as well as tying in somewhat with the whole morality thing suku was talking about, people really need to stop beating around the bush (hoho I'm clever as fuck, give me a pat on the back for that one). Kids need to learn that there are dicks and vaginas and tits and assholes and whatever else out there in that scary world. Parents need to start manning the fuck up and teaching their kids what a dick is, instead of all the sheltering these faggots get nowadays where even the slightest mention of something sexual gets censored, as if it doesn't exist. And before somebody brings up something like "well if they have questions they should just ask their parents", that shouldn't be the responsibility of the child, it should be the responsibility of the parent.

tl;dr - loli is alright just don't be creepy and don't rape kids

[RealRed]

by the time I was an adult, I did wonder why people bothered with assigning "curse words"... I did turn out as someone who says 'fuck' every third word, though. So who knows.

A few more years into adulthood and censorship makes less and less sense. Public statues have their junk hanging left and right. People are scared of tits as though they aren't something everybody wants in some way.

Suku, I didn't read your book you left here but I'll just say. Get over yourself. A community isn't going to miss you if you left because it didn't bend to accommodate you. If you're suffering from remorse for your offense, take a page from Project's book. Let them get offended, this is the internet. If your karmic bank is getting too heavy, take pedophile jokes to 4chan or somewhere it'll be appreciated.